Ep 002 - Activism and Advocacy in the Bi+ Community
Audio
Video
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Steve Spencer:
All right, welcome back to Give It To Me Bi. Today we are diving into the world of activism and advocacy, and I'm already stuffing up this intro. Thank goodness we are doing a second take on it. Tonight we'll be focusing on how Bi+ individuals are making waves and pushing for change right before our very eyes.
Chad Barnier:
Cool. Yeah, yeah, good, that's prepped. Nice.
Steve Spencer:
Building on the legacy of incredible activists before us. We'll be covering bi-activism in history, modern Bi+ advocacy, and of course some challenges and strategies as well for our lovely, wonderful, awesome biconic listeners and allies. So Chad, welcome.
Chad Barnier:
Welcome, episode two, here we are. A topic that is very close to our hearts. This is how we met. We met through activism and advocacy circles and connecting with community. So I have a very deep soft spot for this topic of advocacy and getting out in community.
And yeah, I get to meet wonderful people like yourself and all the other people that we know. What's been your experience of getting into bi-advocacy and activism?
Steve Spencer:
Yeah, I mean, it's the same as you. I've met the most incredible people like the wonderful Chad, who I'm now hosting a podcast with. You never know where these sorts of connections take you. In a way, the advocacy... I can't even say it right. I've made my own new word. I've morphed them together. Advocacy and adv...
Chad Barnier:
That's great. Advocism.
Steve Spencer:
Did I do it again? The advocacy and activism that I've been involved in throughout my whole life, it's saved my life in a way. It's given me purpose because I've got a day job and that pays the bills, but I need something to feed my soul as well.
Chad Barnier:
Hmm.
Steve Spencer:
And I find that the advocacy that I do is just the best way for me to connect, to give back. I have a great deal of privilege, and so I want to be able to use that to help people and, you know, do whatever I can to make my little corner of the world at least a little bit better.
Chad Barnier:
I love that something to feed the soul. That's beautiful. I totally agree. I feel like not everyone is built for advocacy and activism. We have very loud and proud drum bangers. We bang the drum, right? We're out in the streets, kind of, talking about bisexuality and our community a lot, but not everybody's built for it. Not everybody has the, maybe the stamina, the kind personality to kind of take a hit and still move forward with love and kindness and care, which is hard. It's hard for everybody involved in advocacy, absolutely. There's, we're going to probably get to this bit later, there's very little to no resources available for the Bi+ community in that advocacy space. And so you're always kind of working uphill and...
Steve Spencer:
It's hard for us. Right.
Chad Barnier:
But like you said, you mentioned this idea of privilege and I totally agree. If you have some form of privilege or have some areas of strengths, I think it kind of is up to you to, if you have the capacity, to use that and use it for something you care about and hopefully something that you can make a change and a difference in. And we both found ourselves doing this and all the other things that we do in this space because we identified... That's kinda us.
Steve Spencer:
Yeah, I sort of take the same outlook. You mentioned this. I take the same outlook with advocacy as I do sort of with coming out or anything. It's like, if you can, then you perhaps should. That's the way that I looked at it for myself. I'm like, I can do this. I have the privileges to, I have the confidence to do this, whether it's coming out, whether it's to advocate for my community. And so I really felt the duty to do it. But then at the same time, as you've mentioned, there are so many personal reasons why people can't or won't or are unable to get into advocacy. And I don't know about you, but like at the end of the day, we do what we do so that people can just live their lives. We don't so that people don't have to be drumming and, you know, flying the flag as much as I love flying the flag, life is not meant to be a fight. And we've still got so many fights ahead of us, which we get to talk about tonight.
Chad Barnier:
Yeah, absolutely.
Chad Barnier:
Yeah. And I mean, I come up against the question from well-meaning people who might not be in a community that isn't well represented or doesn't have resources, that kind of thing. Why do you have to be so loud about this? Why can't everyone just live their life and just get along and be kind to each other? Look, I think every advocate or activist out there in the world for whatever cause that they're doing it for would agree. Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. Let's do that if it was possible, right? We don't live in a fair society a lot of the time. People don't... there is not equity across different communities. And that's why we fight and that's why we have these conversations because there is still a long way to go. So the idea of saying, putting your hand up and saying I'm bisexual, I'm pansexual, I'm omnisexual, whatever it may be. You are, you're a bit of a lightning rod, a lighthouse. You mentioned last episode being a bi lighthouse for people. Because it's a way people can connect, can get to know themselves through other people and see, hey, I'm not totally alone in this existence, in this life. And maybe this thing that I, it's quite core to who I am, someone else can see that for the first time ever perhaps, maybe just like some friends with some commonalities, that would be great as well.
Steve Spencer:
Yeah. And something that's really unique, I think, for Bi+ advocacy is we're constantly battling against the common myth and misconception that we don't face discrimination, that we don't face challenges. And all it takes is one glance at any mental health statistics, sexual health statistics to see that there are huge inequities between us and other queer people.
Chad Barnier:
Mmm.
Steve Spencer:
And so that's a good reason for us to be fighting. But then also, you know, when we, I've had more than a few times running around with my Bi flag at a pride event or somewhere, or I'll be wearing a pin to somewhere, you know, I have my Bi sweat towel, which we saw last episode, which has been washed since that episode.
Chad Barnier:
Thank you, thank you. The episode hasn't been published, but I'm sure there are people writing in, making sure that you're gonna wash it soon.
Steve Spencer:
Yeah, and because like, you know, for example, the gay community went through their period of liberation a while ago.
And so there's, there are different schools of thought that, you know, are we in a post-gay liberation period? You know, what does having marriage equality mean? Whereas for us, we're still building community. We're still building visibility. We're actually still trying to prove to people that we exist. We're decades behind the gay community. And so when I'm flying that flag, you know, people think that it's really twee, but I'm like, no, we are, we are at the point where we actually need to be flying our flag.
Chad Barnier:
Hmm. Yeah, totally interesting that you say gay liberation because, the movement for a long time was called gay liberation. And during the seventies, the eighties, the nineties, gay liberation was an all-encompassing term. It meant this community of particular outcasts, right? Or non-heterosexual people. So bisexual people fell under that banner, but were not explicitly a part of that community. Now, when we have... yeah, absolutely. Benefit like a rising tide lifts all boats. I think that equity for some helps equity for all. I wholly believe that and...
Steve Spencer:
Yeah, and to be sure we benefited.
Chad Barnier:
But then what happens when we get certain wins on the board, when it comes to say, decriminalisation of homosexuality or gay marriage, all that kind of stuff, is we start to get rid of the to-do list. And perhaps the people who are kind of roped in or assumed to be a part of the community aren't and aren't necessarily explicitly a part of the community.
Maybe their needs aren't on the to-do list because the to-do list doesn't exist anymore. Yeah, it kind of points to a way forward of like, okay, who's missing out, who fell off the list? Do we need to reinstate that list, write a new list?
Steve Spencer:
Mm-hmm. Yeah, there's always a new fight. Now, Chad, we missed our banter. We went straight in. We went deep in. So I'm bringing a little bit of banter in now because I had a very late Pride Month delivery come in of my badges. So thanks. We're now filming in the middle of July, so I'm a little bit late for my Pride Month merch to be coming in. So I've got this one.
Chad Barnier:
My gosh, so fun.
Chad Barnier:
I love that we have a podcast show and tell. This
is great. What does that one say?
Steve Spencer:
Yeah, chaotic bisexual. I'll do it the influx away. You can see that there. Yeah. But then, yeah, and then my favourite one, the bisexual trash raccoon. This one I have a particular affinity for.
Chad Barnier:
That's great!
Chad Barnier:
That's fantastic. I love that.
Chad Barnier:
Yeah, of course. Which part? The trash for the raccoon? I could guess.
Steve Spencer:
Are you asking a bisexual to make a choice?
Chad Barnier:
There we go. Yeah, so one, I didn't get any Pride merch this year, nor do I typically get Pride merch. I got some a few years ago and it is some of my most worn clothing that's all wrapped out and probably not appropriate to wear anymore because it's full of holes. So it sits on my pile of things to sew to other things. So I've got...
certain designs I want to put on jackets and stuff but I need to update my bi merchandise.
Chad Barnier:
I need to buy more.
Steve Spencer:
We definitely need to put a sound effect in there.
Chad Barnier:
So, okay, so I have a question for you. So what would, for you, what would your journey to bi-advocacy and bi-activism be? Were you involved in kind of an advocacy space before bi-advocacy? Were you particularly...
Steve Spencer:
Yeah.
Chad Barnier:
an impassioned child or someone that kind of banged the drum for things outside of yourself when you were younger? Or was this journey direct to bi-advocacy in, and you mentioned before, a part of your coming...
Steve Spencer:
Yeah, no, definitely didn't grow up this way. I was a little wanker. For our overseas friends, that's a dickhead. And no, I didn't really have any thoughts of what was happening outside of my own life and my own little world.
And then getting into my 20s, I realised that there's a world out there and I am part of communities that do actually mean something to me. And so my advocacy started really in HIV.
10 years ago was the 2014 Melbourne AIDS Conference and I went on to my first ever public march rally like I've never marched on the streets before and it was for the rights of people living with HIV because I had friends who were living with HIV. At the time I was HIV negative. Plot twist, I'm not HIV negative anymore.
Steve Spencer:
And sort of feeling that energy. And then I looked and I tell people whenever they want to get into advocacy, I get these questions a lot. You probably do too.
You know, how do I get into it? And I say, look, a really great starting off point is to look at your skillset. And my skillset at the time was in research and social media, really, back in those days, that was Facebook. And so I combined all of that and co-founded my own little grassroots community organisation called Prep Access Now.
Chad Barnier:
Mm.
Steve Spencer:
And through that we became the world's largest private provider of PrEP, the pre-exposure prophylaxis, the HIV preventative pill. And just from there, that's like you sort of get a taste for this sort of stuff. And you can see the impact that individuals can make. And I was surrounded by individuals who didn't have a lot of resources, who...
just had an idea and perhaps some good luck. I certainly feel like I have a lot of good luck and you can actually create change. And so from that, then you know in my coming out in my mid-20s, it didn't start off as bi-activism or advocacy. It just can't turn out that I wanted to come out, let everyone in my life know, so pop it on Facebook and from there people were like okay, look.
I sort of feel like I was picked out of obscurity in sort of a way. It was you and our friends at the Sydney Bi+ Network who really went, hey, you have something to contribute. Would you like to come and be part of something? And that was just the most meaningful thing because especially when you come out as bi, you have all this imposter syndrome. Genuinely, if you haven't been part of the bi community, you wonder, is there even a bi community? It's a question I'm always asked. I'm like, yeah, yeah, there definitely is.
And so to be welcomed and embraced and viewed as a whole person and to be able to apply my skill set was the most valuable thing. And that sort of brings me to how I met you. And so how did you get into the advocacy around the space?
Chad Barnier:
Yeah, look, I didn't grow up, banging a drum, but I did grow up a very passionate child. My mother is a very heart on your sleeve kind of person and has worked tirelessly my whole life in non-for-profit spaces. So working for a place like the Red Cross and working for different cancer councils and working with...
some disadvantaged communities. And so I was always kind of taken with, or just found very natural to kind of have this empathy towards other people until I realised that I have massive blind spots. The world isn't the way that I picture the world to be. And I remember very clearly my partner moved to Sydney and I'm from Canberra and I won't apologise for...
Steve Spencer:
Beautiful town, beautiful town. Wait, wait, wait, that reminds me, that reminds me of, do you know beautiful gowns, beautiful gowns? Just like Canberra, gowns, beautiful gowns. Our Australian listeners will know the reference, yep, sorry. It's...
Chad Barnier:
Gowns, beautiful gowns. That's great. Love that. Gowns, beautiful gowns. I'm going to start saying that about Canberra for now. That's literally perfect. So I remember very clearly visiting my partner one weekend. She had moved in with a good friend of ours and the TV was on and there's a conversation happening around the gender pay gap. And I was quite young and quite naive and I was like,
Well, that can't exist. That would be illegal. Like you couldn't legally pay someone less, right? And in that moment, something like it was a very powerful exchange. My friend, the person my partner was living with very gently kind of like walked me through the idea of the gender pay gap and explained all the ways that it manifests and it completely...
changed my life. I just remember looking at the world been like, there's different colours. Like, it's not exactly what I've always known it to be. And it shouldn't be. But I now that I know, I now have this responsibility to turn over all these different stones and all these different leaves to see if that is the truth. Or if perhaps my biases and my lived experiences telling me some kind of falsehood, or perhaps the media or life right...
growing up as a cis man, if those things are impacting those things as well. It really, it was a bit of a paradigm shift. And I remember then really rallying around other causes that I cared about and people I cared about cared about. And I remember reflecting on why was it so powerful? And for me, and this might not be the case for everybody. I know some...
might take umption with the idea, but she was very gentle and thoughtful and empathetic in her delivery of the message, right? Why you should care about this thing. This is perhaps you don't know. She didn't call me stupid. She didn't call me dumb. She didn't like belittle me in my limited understanding. But it shouldn't be her. Let me start that part again.
Chad Barnier:
She is the person that is most impacted by my naivety of that topic. Yet she still had the empathy and the kindness to educate me about those things and have that patience. And it really just hit me like a tonne of bricks of like, wow, that's what, that's what change looks like. And so in my engaging in the different things that I care about in advocacy spaces...
Steve Spencer:
Mm.
Chad Barnier:
...became a bit of a mantra to me of like, lead with empathy, lead with education, lead with, assume the best in people. I try to assume that people don't mean to harm people. A lot of harm is accidental or incidental, or just naive. And so that's what I try and do. And like there are times that where you get passionate and you get angry and you get loud. Sure. That doesn't mean...
doesn't come from empathy. And perhaps that comes down to more tactics, not the advocacy itself. But that really kind of woke me up to advocacy in its kind of most primary form. But then I recognised my own journey with bisexuality. And I, to myself, have always been out, right?
I, I discovered what bisexuality was, quite young. When Green Day's lead singer and guitarist Billie Joe Armstrong said that he was bisexual in an interview. And I said, wait a second. That's me. Like I've never heard that word before. Yeah, he hadn't, there was an interview, someone asking him about a song, maybe it was about King for a Day. There's a song about doing drag in your mother's clothes when she's out of the house.
Steve Spencer:
When was that?
Steve Spencer:
Yeah.
Chad Barnier:
And then said something about quite flippantly and about being bisexual. I was like, Oh my gosh, like, of course that's makes so much sense to me now. And so to me, I had always kind of been out
, this is, I was 14 maybe. So gosh, yeah, maybe five, six years ago. So almost 20 years ago, right. And in high school, I was a little emo kid and a lot of emos...
Steve Spencer:
How long ago was this?
Steve Spencer:
So a couple of years ago.
Chad Barnier:
I'm not sure if they're experimenting or whatever as a teenager, but all my friends were bi, right? So like we were, it was just like the thing, the default was like, look at us bi kids, wearing in our skinny jeans and our eyeliner. And then, then as I grew up, I began going to church and I stopped talking about that part of myself and recognised that a lot of my relationships didn't have a full picture of who I was, not because I was hiding it, but I just...
like I saying before, banging the drum. And, and I recognised that one, that was doing harm in that relationship because it wasn't fully truthful or authentic. But it's also doing harm to myself. There's a part of me that I wasn't celebrating and owning and I took that as a bit of a, a bit of a rally cry to, I needed this from somebody when I was 14. Why aren't I doing this for someone else when they're that age?
And yeah, and I've recognised that that has made a really big difference in my community and people in my life and, to keep going.
Steve Spencer:
Yeah. Speaking of your Green Day moment, today is the 29th birthday of bisexuality. We're filming this on the 18th of July when Newsweek declared that bisexuality existed. So I think a lot has happened during that period.
Chad Barnier:
I had no idea where it was like, what are you... I thought you were about to say... Anyway, I thought you were about to derail everything we've ever worked towards. That's great. Yeah, so we've only been around for 29 years and it's... That's so funny. That Newsweek article, infamous. If you don't know it, in... Was it 1993? No, 1995 something?
Steve Spencer:
My DMs have been full of this.
Steve Spencer:
Yeah.
Steve Spencer:
Whatever, whatever, 29 years ago was. It was 29 years ago.
Chad Barnier:
Yeah, Newsweek, a very dramatic front cover saying the new sexuality and of these very depressed, very serious, solemn looking young people. Yeah, yeah, a lot of shadows, dramatic lighting contrast.
Steve Spencer:
Yeah, just like, sort of behind the shadows like this.
Steve Spencer:
We should recreate that photo. I think we should.
Chad Barnier:
My gosh, that should be the podcast artwork. Imagine!
Steve Spencer:
Okay speaking of history being made we listeners you are witnessing history being made. I think that's it.
Chad Barnier:
Wow. Done. Wow. That's hilarious. Wow. Okay. My creative brain is ticking. And I mean, guess kind of going back to what you said before is like using your strengths. You don't have to try and be a different person or gain some new skill to be an advocate or an...
Steve Spencer:
No, no, you studied something, you work somewhere, you have a certain skill set, a type of art that you're skillful in. Apply whatever you have at your disposal and use that. It's like, I have people who...
Chad Barnier:
Mm-hmm.
Chad Barnier:
Mm.
Steve Spencer:
You know, not to like, slag on people who work in banks or work in middle management or something. Like, you know, I just have a day-to-day job. What difference can I make? You can make a huge difference. You work at a large organisation, get involved in their pride network. I bet you that pride network doesn't have much bi-visibility. Be that visibility. You could be a revolution for a whole organisation. You can, yeah.
Chad Barnier:
Mm. Mm.
Chad Barnier:
Mmm
Steve Spencer:
Absolutely. And I just, I just reckon like recognise working in community, right? Is there a lot of skill gaps and some areas that community would love to have certain skill sets. Are you great at grant writing? My gosh. Come along to Sydney Bi+ Network. Come along to some kind of community group and let's write some grants together and get some funding for our community. Or are you really good at budgeting?
Steve Spencer:
Yeah, right.
Chad Barnier:
Because you work in finance. Awesome. We could use you as a treasurer. My gosh. Are you great at events? Like tell you what the Bi+ community needs. We need a year round calendar of events so people can see that there is community. We don't want to just be one float at the Pride march in June or in February. We need all the skill sets and yeah, so lean into what makes you you and then turn up that way. We don't need...
Steve Spencer:
Risk management. We need a risk manager. Look.
Chad Barnier:
...more Chad's or more Steve's, we need more you.
Steve Spencer:
We need less Steve. I need to retire. Put me to pasture please. I've been a talking head for so long. No.
Chad Barnier:
You...
Chad Barnier:
I reckon once a week someone messaged me on Instagram and says, can we see less of Steve, please somebody?
Steve Spencer:
Plenty go in me, but you know, one thing that is important to me as an advocate is to actually nurture and build the capacity of the next advocates. Because it's like I've started a few organisations of my own knowing full well that I want to have the capacity beyond a couple or a few years to be able to run them.
Chad Barnier:
Mm. Mm-hmm.
Steve Spencer:
Like the Bi+ Positive Advocacy Network, the world's first national network of HIV positive Bi+ people. And so I started this organisation under the auspices of our peak national HIV body, knowing full well, need, will need people to come in and create, like make it their own as well. Because one thing I have found, and another thing with advocacy is to understand your style and...
There are people who are like the workhorses. They can really get the stuff done and really put the work in. Or people like me who are sort of like really great ideas people. I will come up with a fantastic idea and sort of light a spark, but I'll need people to carry that torch for me afterwards. You know, we all sort of have a place to play. So even if you feel like, I can't come up with like a revolutionary idea...
Chad Barnier:
Mm-hmm.
Steve Spencer:
We don't need that. Like we need people to come in. Yeah, we need a bivolution. We'll work on that one. I think it's time for a little break.
Chad Barnier:
Yeah, we're not looking for revolutions.
Well, we're looking for a revolution.
Chad Barnier:
Yeah, not everything. You don't have to change the world with every decision, right?
Steve Spencer:
Can you hold that thought? I need to go pee.
Chad Barnier:
I'm gonna keep it running.
Steve Spencer:
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I was gonna say I'm gonna take this out so you don't hear me. All the time I can't hear you now, sorry.
Steve Spencer:
I to bloody god. Can you hear me?
Steve Spencer:
Can you hear me, Can Chad hear me? Cause I can't hear him. Now I can hear...
Chad Barnier:
I can hear you, I just had my phone, my mic on mute. My God, wash your hands.
Steve Spencer:
What? I did!
Chad Barnier:
That's gonna be the show notes now.
Steve Spencer:
Look at the look! My hands are wet! Did I - Did you set up a camera in my toilet?
Steve Spencer:
So I'm currently having audio difficulties apparently. I'm currently having a cold brat winter, because we're in winter here in Sydney. So everything green is really triggering right now. I see green, I'm like, Charlie, it's Charlie.
Chad Barnier:
Yes.
Chad Barnier:
Right. Right. Yeah. Yeah. I work in marketing, right. But I work in marketing for accountants and someone from our UK team who's like 50, maybe forties, sent through an article today about, is this a trend we should latch onto?
Steve Spencer:
Mmm.
Chad Barnier:
...because it was an article talking about all these different businesses who are latching onto the brat fandom. Like, my gosh, brat is following me everywhere.
Steve Spencer:
Brat is huge. So I started a run club, a Brat run club. We're called the Brats. We meet under this giant green Brat billboard every Saturday. Look, I'm all about the cultural side, guys.
Chad Barnier:
Yeah.
Chad Barnier:
Of course. Of course.
Steve Spencer:
Guilty.
Chad Barnier:
Love it. Cool. Well, as we jump into that next part, let's like change gears into, I kind of like a pause and then I go, cool. Let's now shift
. I think that's If each segment was like 20 and then each segment gets cut down to 15 or something. That works for me.
Steve Spencer:
Yeah.
Steve Spencer:
Yep. Yep. And I think those little breaks as well, like our little exchange there, would be great for socials. Probably. Latch on to... I just want something brat-related.
Chad Barnier:
Yeah, yeah, great. Yeah.
Bi rat, bi rat. are a bi rat.
Steve Spencer:
Yeah. I am a bi rat. I put the B in brat.
Chad Barnier:
Being brat, give me a sec. Heidi's just made dinner and she might better bring it in and we're technically not recording.
Steve Spencer:
We put the B in brat.
Chad Barnier:
Well, we're technically not talking on topic. So I can get...
Steve Spencer:
Hello editor, I know you can hear us. And thank you for your work.
Chad Barnier:
Okay, let me close this.
Steve Spencer:
Can you make my eyes less glassy?
Chad Barnier:
Less glassy?
Steve Spencer:
Yeah, can we just blur out the eyes a little?
Chad Barnier:
Okay, okay, but that Newsweek idea kind of a slay.
Steve Spencer:
We have to do it now with the...
Chad Barnier:
Kind of hilarious. Like, it's one of those things, like if you know you know, if you don't know, does it look too serious? You know, like, I wonder, does it deter people? Or is it just on us to like make a point of like referencing it?
Steve Spencer:
It could be, so we've got our overarching design language. We've got our colours. This doesn't align to those colours at all, but it doesn't have to. It can be a campaign. So think of this as maybe, yeah. So we've got our broad language. It'd be on, that's our website. That's everything because we're not going black, white and red. But as something like a camp, we could have that as our podcast thumbnail.
Chad Barnier:
Yeah, that's cool.
Steve Spencer:
...and could have it in lots of our socials as well. This could be like the season one theme.
Chad Barnier:
Yeah. Yeah, I like that. I almost like that it's like, if that was the new sexuality or something, this is like the new like if that was 101, this is 102 almost like we're introducing a new generation or something. That's so funny.
Steve Spencer:
Yeah, especially we're starting off with the 101 sort of stuff, right? So it makes sense.
Chad Barnier:
I honestly obsessed with that idea. Give me one second.
Steve Spencer:
We have to fight for which position we get. Hi, Heidi. Hi, Heidi.
Chad Barnier:
Hello, thank you so much. Look at this.
Chad Barnier:
My gosh, that was insane. Huh?
Steve Spencer:
Tell Heidi I said hello.
Chad Barnier:
Howdy Steve says hi it's very accurate actually.
Steve Spencer:
I got Dallas and a Hyde on that.
Chad Barnier:
My gosh, it's so good. Wow. Okay. We're on like a bit of a Japan kick because we're going to Japan and we finally booked all that stuff in. And so this morning we went to the Japanese cafe, then for lunch we went to a Japanese sandwich place and now Heidi's cooking Japanese food for dinner. So we're very excited. Cool. All right. Shall we get into the next part? Awesome.
Steve Spencer:
I saw...
Steve Spencer:
Yeah, sick. Yep. Yep, my throat is drying the hell out.
Chad Barnier:
Cool, we'll just do one. Do you have water? Okay. You got like, strepsils or something?
Chad Barnier:
Yeah, cool.
Steve Spencer:
Just for you orgasm. Actually, you know what?
Steve Spencer:
If this... if this isn't connected to anything, then it's my prop.
Chad Barnier:
Okay, here we go. Go for it. I love it. It's going to be funny because people will recognise that like you'll talk here and here and it'll sound exactly the same. I kind love that it's just a prop.
Steve Spencer:
It's my dream.
Steve Spencer:
Cool.
Steve Spencer:
It's the magic of Hollywood. Yeah, welcome.
Chad Barnier:
Love it. Props department. Need like a cranky old someone called Chantel to be in the props department. Make sure it goes back to where it needs to be. Cool. Okay. Done. Awesome. Welcome back from the break. First little podcast break. Here we go. So welcome back from the break. We thought we might take the opportunity to talk about advocacy and activism...
Steve Spencer:
Yeah, I'll just name Andrew Chantel.
Alright.
Chad Barnier:
...as it pertains to our history, right? What, how has bi-activism played a part in perhaps the wider LGBTQIA+ space, which we kind of touched on last week when we talked about pride. But there are some significant milestones and achievements, and different people that have popped up throughout time. And this would be a really great opportunity to highlight and honour those people and those milestones.
Steve Spencer:
Absolutely, and there are historical figures and something that can also be really difficult when looking back in our history and it's the same thing for lots of queer history is the notorious they were just roommates. So we don't necessarily have an accurate present representation in historical records of who were visibly bisexual back millennia, but we do have more. Yeah.
Chad Barnier:
Mmm.
Steve Spencer:
Can I say I'd love to do an entire episode on that because I take umption with that because we don't doubt that people were straight in history. We don't doubt whether people were gay in history. The second that there's any kind of ambiguity, it's like, how dare you ascribe modern day sexuality and language to people from history. I'm going to park that thought right there. We're going to pick up on it on another episode, but I had this argument with a few people previously and it really kind of gets my goat.
Steve Spencer:
Yeah, totally. And so, you know, in the 20th century, of course, we saw a massive emergence, the late 20th century especially, a massive emergence of Bi+ advocates across the world. And then as part of broader queer and gay liberation, we saw some really large names come out of North America.
Chad Barnier:
Please continue.
Steve Spencer:
And then we're still seeing today more and more advocates, public figures being out, speaking up, contributing and you know.
We're looking back in this segment, but I'm really looking for the next one, where we get to talk about what's happening now and what's going on in the future. But we, of course, stand on the shoulders of giants here. So Chad, give us a couple of your most iconic Bi+ advocates and activists.
Chad Barnier:
Yeah. Yeah.
Chad Barnier:
Absolutely.
Chad Barnier:
Yeah, sure. Look, I mean, one of the most glaring ones that we spoke about last week is Brenda Howard, the mother of pride, the person who organised the first pride marches and continued to organise pride marches ever since Stonewall. Some other people...
Look, I come from a creative background and I'm a musician and I played music my whole life. So there's a lot of bisexual icons that I look up to in that space, from David Bowie, Freddie Mercury. I said before, Billie Joe Armstrong from Green Day, but we have people like Billy Holiday and Lady Gaga and people who, I mean, Lady Gaga is interesting one. It's always called an ally, right? And like you...
You are part of the community yet you're outside of the community all at one time. So I have a lot of creative people that I look up to and I love that they are loud voices for us. There's this really famous interview with David Bowie where he's been quizzed on his sexuality. Do you remember that?
Steve Spencer:
I do, yeah, really stoic and strong in their shortness when the person interviewing them was so wishy washy and like, come on, you can probably say a bit more. You probably say a bit better than I am.
Chad Barnier:
Mmm.
Chad Barnier:
Yeah, yeah, the quote was really interesting. The interviewer, this is surely it's back in the 70s. The interviewer said like, you've been asked about whether or not you're bisexual. And David Bowies said, yes, I have. Many times, too many times. And the interviewer then says, but you've never quite answered it. It's like, well, no, I have. I'm bisexual. That's enough. It's like, well, what does that mean, though?
Steve Spencer:
Heh. Heh.
Chad Barnier:
Like, it mean that you really are on that? Like you're keeping something secret and he's just like, I've answered your question. I don't need to say anything else. I've you asked me, I said, I am let's move on. And that was in the seventies. That's, my gosh, 50 years ago. So it's like a bit of a
watershed moment, for sexuality in, in, in media and entertainment. I think it would...
be silly not to mention some activists, but then some people who might not be considered an activist, but have definitely influenced the community. an activist would be Sylvia Rivera. So Sylvia was a bisexual trans woman who was a key figure in the early Pride movement and key figure in Stonewall riots as well. From memory, was a co-founder of...
which is I want to double check but it's an organisation advocating for the rights of actually you know what I'm gonna double check that because I'm gonna get the language wrong and I don't want to get that wrong Sylvia Rivera...
I'm pretty sure the word transsexual or transvestite, isn't it? Yeah, cool. I don't want to get that wrong. So one of them, one of those people would be Sylvia Rivera. So Sylvia Rivera was a key figure in the Stonewall riots and the events that occurred there and after. Very vocal. Some people say divisive, but it's a bisexual trans woman who had founded an organisation called STAR, which is the Street Transvestite Action Revolutionaries...
and was a really vocal, very active, very, very loud figure for the movement of queer rights. And especially for sex workers and people of trans identities as well. One of the other figures I wanted to talk about a little bit was actually Alfred Kinsey. Now I know that in bisexual spaces, Alfred Kinsey and...
Chad Barnier:
the work that he did in the reports and the Kinsey scale can be a bit controversial or a bit divisive because it's not entirely accurate to people's experiences. However, it really changed the world in terms of defining male sexuality. So Alfred Kinsey was responsible for the Kinsey reports. He was an American biologist, a professor of entomology...
and zoology and, through doing that work and kind of not getting funding and not making the waves or the, the impact that he had aspired to found himself looking into male sexuality. He himself, I'm not sure if identified as bisexual, but had experiences and relationships with people of multiple genders...
and then had put out a report called Sexual Behavior in the Human Male. And then the next decade put one out about human female. But essentially what that came to was the creation of the Kinsey scale. So this was a scale from zero to five where at one you are wholly homosexual. Sorry, zero to six...
So at one, you are wholly heterosexual, at six, you're wholly homosexual, and everyone else is on a sliding scale up. And so in the middle, you have 50-50 heterosexual, homosexual, and then there was a lesser amount and a greater amount. Surprisingly, actually, there is a zero point on that scale. It doesn't start at one. And this is for people who don't have a sexual attraction. So believe it or not...
some kind of representation for asexual people before we had that language. And it's, I guess, pretty revolutionary to have that acknowledged so early. So this is 1948 that this is happening, this study. So Kinsey's work really revolutionised and was really highly influential in contributing to the sexual revolution. People learning to discover their sexuality and...
Chad Barnier:
...recognising that you don't have to exist in this binary, there is an area in between. And as we've discussed before, and we'll discuss again, bisexuality isn't plotted on a map between gay and straight or homosexual and heterosexual. It is not a linear line, a linear line. It's not a linear scale that we plot ourselves somewhere along that. But at this time, that idea was pretty revolutionary. And it gave people this freedom to talk about themselves...
in a different capacity and live their lives in a different capacity as...
Steve Spencer:
And just to follow on from the Kinsey Scale, was so formative when it was, formative for decades and decades. And then more recently we've had things like the Klein Grid named after, excuse me, Dr. Fritz Klein. And so in 1978, Dr. Klein wrote the book, The Bisexual Option, and came up with the Klein Grid. And it's more of a nuanced way. If you think of the Kinsey Scale as a two-dimensional way of...
Chad Barnier:
Mmm.
Chad Barnier:
Mmm.
Steve Spencer:
...understanding sexuality, which for its time we came from a one dimensional understanding of sexuality to now actually understanding it's much more diverse and on the spectrum. The Klein grid sort of takes it to the next level. It's literally a three dimensional view of what human sexuality can look like in a much more nuanced way. So definitely read up on the Kinsey scale and read up on the Klein grid that's Klein with a K. Yeah.
Chad Barnier:
Yeah...
Chad Barnier:
Yeah, and we might put both of these on our website in the episode link. It's interesting to see how these things are plotted out. So obviously, the Kinsey scale is quite linear and pretty rudimentary. And the client sexuality grid with it talks about experience. And it talks about your...
not necessarily experience, but your attraction, your behavior, your fantasies, your preferences, a whole bunch of different types of category of your experience as a bisexual person or as a sexual person. And then you would rank them as well from either heterosexual only, homosexual only, those types of things. And so it's interesting to see how people start to talk about bisexuality in terms of experience...
...self-notification or self-ascribing their experience because there have been some really quite controversial and really quite quite disgusting methods of trying to figure out bisexuality over the years when it comes to study and I mean homosexuality as well and so there have been some studies measuring...
Steve Spencer:
Ugh, yeah. Ugh.
Chad Barnier:
...erect penises and, and penile engorgement, kind of thing, arousal patterns, and you strap people to a chair and put, put pornography on in front of them and, and yeah. And so it's interesting to see that the early, earlier methods, though they were quite rudimentary, were probably a little bit more appropriate, probably a lot more appropriate to, to how I would like bisexual represented...
Steve Spencer:
Yeah, arousal patterns.
What?
Yeah, and electrodes on their heads and stuff.
Chad Barnier:
...in the world is self-identification and self-reporting of experiences and attraction and all that kind of stuff. So it's interesting that it's kind of taken a really big dive at some point and then it's come back up and starting to do those things again now.
Steve Spencer:
Yeah. All right, let's look at some more Bi+ advocates that we think are bichonic. I've got a local one and so working in the sexual health and HIV space, there's one person who I always draw on...
Chad Barnier:
Mm.
Steve Spencer:
...wrote quite a few articles on HIV AIDS in the early 90s. So back when things, back when the AIDS pandemic, the AIDS crisis was still going on, of course the pandemic is still going on today, but we have wonderful medication that keeps it all under control. Now his name is Scott Anderson and Scott wrote in the early 90s...
...just some core principles that we think would make sense, like having a person-centered response, like...
...the acknowledgement of all the different genders and sexes of bi people, their partners, the involvement, the key involvement, the meaningful involvement of Bi+ people in the HIV response. And these were things called for in the early 90s and were just basically completely ignored...
...and it's stuff that Bi+ sexual health advocates like me today are sort of saying we've been asking for this for 30 years. But the good news is that it's changing. Like it's changing. Which is so exciting to watch. But it's due to advocates like Scott in the early 90s that we I even have the language be able to draw on. And it's kind of reassuring as well to know that the frustrations that we feel today are frustrations that have always been felt...
Chad Barnier:
Yeah, I'm not sure if that, yeah, I'm not sure if that unites us or if it's disappointing that, yeah, if it's disappointing that, man, has nothing happened? Where's the progress? I think it's a mix of both.
Steve Spencer:
I'm not sure if that's a good thing.
Steve Spencer:
Totally. But I think, yeah, I think maybe in a way, I mean, like, I'm on the right path. I know, I know I'm thinking in the right way. My focus is in the right place. Because, you know, as advocates, you're sort of wondering all the time, is what I'm doing useful? Is it relevant? Is it...
Chad Barnier:
Mmm.
Steve Spencer:
...is it going to create change or am I just sort of yelling into the void? Like I sort of, I sometimes think I'm, people who know the Simpsons, old man yelling at the cloud. I always sometimes feel like I'm an old man yelling at the clouds. And then when you see like, what I'm doing or what we are doing is actually part of a rich history of bi-advocacy throughout the decades. You're like, no, we're on the same track. We're doing the thing.
Chad Barnier:
Yeah, absolutely. And I've, you mentioned before that we stand on the shoulders of giants and we said last episode, and I'll probably continue to say it into the future episodes, is we look to our past to understand how we can move into our future. And so I'd love to talk about some contemporary Bi+ activists and their contributions to the work that we do
and to our community.
Steve Spencer:
Yeah, so when I'm asked this question, like who are the bi people around now that inspire you, it's literally the people that I know. It's literally the people that I was like, you Chad, the people at Sydney Bi+ Network, people that we know from overseas, Ross Victorious, RK Russell...
...just so many incredible voices who are one DM away on Instagram. And that's one of the cool things as well, Chad, about, and we're gonna talk about this in a little bit, but advocacy in the social media era is it's not just a great platform, but it's a great way for you to network and a great way for you to connect with these people. And so it's really exciting that it's not the activists and the advocates that we see today aren't...
Chad Barnier:
Yeah.
Steve Spencer:
...some ivory tower there people just like you and me there people just like our listeners there just people making change in their little corner of the world it's so awesome to watch there are the big names of course as well...
Chad Barnier:
Yeah, that little corner of your world is so important, right? Like I see, let's say, let's say I'll use you as an example. Let's say you go off and be the biggest, most wonderful bi advocate that there ever was, right? Let's say that that is a possibility. The person who got you to that place were all these little people throughout your experience that said, Hey, yeah, come on in, come...
...come join our community or hey, you'd be really great on this podcast or hey, I'd love for you to write an article. And so like, or maybe you've interviewed someone for their experience, those types of things. So each person doesn't have to go off and change the world, right? But don't doubt that every single person has an impact that is global and it hasn't impacted us so far beyond their local reach and their community...
Steve Spencer:
Yeah.
Chad Barnier:
...that it really makes waves. It's kind of that pebble in the water kind of thing, right? Or the butterfly effect where something so seemingly small can impact so many people by just you turning up and being wonderful and authentic and thoughtful. You could really set in motion some really big change down the...
Steve Spencer:
Yeah, and I think actually at the end of the day, like you said, like it's not, it doesn't have to be, you can have global reach, but I find probably the most powerful form of advocacy for us is to be out. To be out and to be that lighthouse in where you are...
Chad Barnier:
Yeah, yeah absolutely.
Steve Spencer:
...because without knowing you can change the lives of people around you. So when I came out I thought I was the only queer in my family. Within a few years it turns out my dad, my sister and my two half brothers are all bisexual just like me. And they only came out because I came out...
...you can create waves in your, just around you and globally and things that you do, you never know where they might be picked up or you never know who might hear you. Being at a bar and using the B word loudly, having a little pin on your backpack, walking down the street, you can change someone's life just walking past them. It's powerful stuff, Chad.
Chad Barnier:
Yeah, absolutely. I love the little pin one. Anytime I see someone wearing a little pin or some of the other markers that just like are true to my experience, like I see you, I love you. Yeah, it's, it's, it's, some other markers, Doc Martens. Anytime I see someone with Doc Martens. No, there's a few, but I mean, I'd take them with all a bit of a grain of salt, obviously. But, yeah, look, it's so true. The idea that you're, you are...
Steve Spencer:
What are some other markers, Chad?
Steve Spencer:
-huh.
Chad Barnier:
...making an impression always is so important. And like you hear that in a professional career kind of environment, but it's true in this space as well. Just being out is political and it is revolutionary to let people in. And I am, I'm out and I'm proud and I'm loud. And I have people messaging me every other week and say, Hey...
...I am, or people bring it up in conversation and at the end of conversation, actually, by the way, can you not tell people just because you're the only person that knows they just felt so comfortable around me to like say it as wow. Okay. Like in this moment, you got to be yourself for a hot minute. And it's super cool. I'd love to highlight some other contemporary names and voices. We mentioned last week, Robin Oakes...
...our bi mother, Robin Oakes has written and contributed to a few books and is a fantastic advocate and it sits on the board and in different organisations. So please, please look up Robin Oakes. Julia Shaw has written a really fantastic book called The Hidden Culture, History and Science of Bisexuality. It's a fantastic read. You...
Steve Spencer:
Hold on a sec I'll get my copy.
Yeah.
Chad Barnier:
And, it's a really great, one-one. If you just want to kind of catch up and get up to speed on all that there is, and has been about bisexuality and, in one nice little package, it's a fantastic book. Here we are. Show and tell. I've got mine just here as well. Yeah. lower shearing. They are absolutely fantastic.
Steve Spencer:
Yeah, show and tell people again. Enjoy your show's book.
Chad Barnier:
I first came across Lois because they had posted the bisexual manifesto on Twitter, which was fantastic for me as a baby bi, about how to turn up and how to demand more from people, particularly other queer organisations that don't recognise bisexuality as much as they should. Vaneet Mehta is fantastic author of Bisexual Men Exist. You would have seen that go all across Instagram...
Steve Spencer:
Boom.
Chad Barnier:
...and Twitter when that launched. We have some really fantastically creative and thoughtful and passionate people putting out good work and supporting that good work allows them to do more good work. So this is a humble plug. If you are out there and you like to read, if you like to consume art, if you like to consume anything at all, if you recognise that there is something that is particularly for a community...
...or education or anything like that. Please download it, consume it, buy it, listen to it, stream it, hit, hit, add to favourites, share it, share it to a friend. It really boosts everyone. And, and, and the more that those things boost, the more people see it and the more people we can, we can affect and, and, help really. Which is, I guess, kind of talking to one of our next points is like, what is the future...
Steve Spencer:
Yeah, and share it with us as well, because we...
Chad Barnier:
...of bi-activism. Like we have new technology like social media and all these different ways to connect with people. What is the future that you see, Steve, when it comes to bi-advocacy and activism?
Steve Spencer:
That was a very pointed Steve. What? Yeah, like, I feel like I've been caught. No, I've dropped something. All right, let me look into my crystal ball...
Chad Barnier:
What do you say, Steve? Answer my question, Steve.
Chad Barnier:
I can take it again if you want little chiller.
Steve Spencer:
No, it's my turn. Look, the future, we already see so many Bi+ communities being built online and I think that trend is going to continue really strongly. So another thing for people wanting to connect, online communities are really powerful. The use of them as platforms and as ways to connect...
...will just continue to grow in significance and an impact. I think, look, we'd be remiss to not bring in the A word, AI...
Chad Barnier:
Mm.
Steve Spencer:
...I think AI will have a really powerful role to play in advocacy in the very near future, if not right now. The use of it, because so often, such a huge barrier for access to advocacy, and we really have to acknowledge that there are barriers to accessing advocacy and having the tools, the language, the knowledge, all of that sort of stuff. AI can really be a powerful leveller for that sort of thing. It can be used for nefarious purposes as...
Chad Barnier:
Mm. Mm.
Steve Spencer:
...but it can be used by advocates, by advocates, to help create whatever advocacy that they want to bring into the world. It can be such a powerful tool.
Chad Barnier:
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, AI is interesting. There is, there's kind of, it's kind of two sides of it. And I want to acknowledge that there are some shortcomings when it comes to AI. And these are models that are trained off existing language and existing content and media. So...
...we as a community haven't been visible. We haven't had our histories documented. We haven't had these things be available for training data for AI. So, and that's like just scratching the surface. When we start talking about intersectional communities, it's far, far, far worse. And so it's important to acknowledge that AI is fallible, right? And so the more
that we have...
...focal and the more that we are visible, the more AI can start to see data that represents us and train on that data. And I know that people have issue with AI and training data, but that is a reality that we need to acknowledge. Then yet to your point, Steve, AI is a resource. And when you think about things like chat GPT...
Steve Spencer:
Mm. Mm.
Steve Spencer:
We are all those things in one. Cleric!
Steve Spencer:
All the more proud of you, for sure. Yeah.
Chad Barnier:
...our communities don't have funding. We don't have resources. We don't have people who, we don't have admin staff. We don't have clerics or anything that, I say cleric. I meant to clerk. We probably have some clerics. Yeah, we probably have some clerics out there. But yeah, like we don't have structured organisations where we've got a marketing budget and a grant writing team...
...and a website copywriter or any of those things. So it's really important that like for those people who are in the know and have the capacity and the capability to perhaps get a handle on tools that chat to you and use them to try and prop up our community. That's just one thing. But social media is the obvious other technology. You mentioned people finding each other on social media...
Steve Spencer:
Yeah, right.
Chad Barnier:
...but there are other ways to kind of take those audiences off those channels. Social media is fantastic, but we don't own those channels. And the second someone who means us harm or is maybe a bit naive to our experience. If they say, Hey, I don't like this page. I don't like this group. I don't like this. And insert something here. You could lose an entire following like that. And you won't get it back...
...that is very real. I've seen it happen to many people. So trying to take those communities and audiences offline to email newsletters to local in-person community events is really important as well. Obviously, it's not the only thing. We love social media, but it's important to try and connect with people offline as well.
Steve Spencer:
Yeah, well, you and I Chad went on a little date last weekend to, yeah, very cute, to one of our local Bi+ community meetups. It was just down at a pub. There were dozens of us. And I tell you what, we walked away with 10 new best friends. It's just so awesome.
Chad Barnier:
We did.
Steve Spencer:
Yeah.
Chad Barnier:
We did. You did. I commented your new best friends to be friends.
Steve Spencer:
Like I said, put me to pasture, I'm ready to go to bed. You could take it from here. I'll wheel them in and yeah, you can take them. But it's that sort of stuff, like as much as we are terminally online, it's...
Chad Barnier:
Done. Yeah.
Steve Spencer:
...there's in-person is just so brilliant and if you feel safe in those environments. If those environments if you're lucky enough to have those environments in your local area, but also Chad this is where the famous phrase "be the change you want to see if you can you should" Run with it. If you don't have a local group "bi the change" bi bi bi bi...
Chad Barnier:
Bi the change you want to be.
Steve Spencer:
If you just change every word it works. If you don't have a local group, start one. If you are too scared to start it in person, start an online community in your local area first, then take it offline. You really can. Yeah.
Chad Barnier:
Yeah, that's what we're doing right now. We recognise that there was potentially a gap in podcast and video and audio content that was specific to Australian bisexual people in that want to be, I guess, a little bit more active and a little bit more engaged. And here we are now with the Give It To Me Bi podcast...
...that's not to take away or detract from other podcasts that are more story driven or more lived experience driven. We need those. That's kind of not what we are doing. We're doing this more kind of, activists advocacy kind of pitch, right? Every there's, there's niches and nuance and that everyone can feel and everyone should feel empowered and comfortable to feel...
Steve Spencer:
Yeah, as soon as I, you get a lot of imposter syndrome, I think we all know what that feels like. But you get it as an advocate as well. And you're like, is this, am I doing anything meaningful?
Chad Barnier:
Mm
Steve Spencer:
But as soon as like the second you learn like, I can be the change. I can create that Facebook group. I can create that meetup at a local pub. I can do these things. Really, once you get a feel for that and your own power and know that you can do those things, baby, welcome. Like run with that feeling because you're really capable of lots of wonderful things.
Chad Barnier:
Mmm. Yeah...
Chad Barnier:
Yeah, absolutely. And it's wonderful to connect with people in more kind of niche communities. Maybe it's not a bi general community. Maybe it's a bi gamers community. Maybe it's a bi even more niche bi D&D. You know what I mean? There could be so many niche ways to meet people that are more specific to your interests.
Steve Spencer:
Reminds me of someone I know, Chad.
Chad Barnier:
I've been trying to start a D &D party. Guys, hit me up. But also there's a lot to be said about meeting people that aren't necessarily exactly like you in, but still within the community. There's a lot to be learned from shared histories and lived experiences of other people that are different to you. So if you're comfortable, take that leap, meet people. I never go out. I never go to in-person events. Not ever. Really. I have a young child...
...always tired. Also, I just love being online. So I'm always at home. Steve forced me out of the house. It was wonderful. I met so many new people that I already adore.
Steve Spencer:
Yeah.
Steve Spencer:
Yeah, and like I don't drink, but sorry, go to a pub. I had my lemonade, had a good steak. You know, you're there to meet people. You're there to enjoy yourself. You know, don't, it's scary for sure. I was nervous, Chad. Like I've been in this game for a while now, right? And even I'm nervous walking through that gate being like, what am I walking into?
Chad Barnier:
Hmm.
Chad Barnier:
Me too!
Steve Spencer:
But the second you get down, you realise everyone else feels the exact same way. We're all complete dweebs on this rock spinning through space. Let's chat. Yeah, it's really cool. And that's how, like, this is sort of how we met. And then look at all the incredible work that, you know, we've managed to do over the years. And we've seen that through so many people, so many local advocates as well.
Chad Barnier:
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.
Chad Barnier:
Yeah, magic happens in connection. I'm say that again, because I fumble that. Magic really exists in connecting with other people and there's so much that can happen between one person and another person and amplifying that is usually only ever a good thing.
Steve Spencer:
And as a bi person, connecting with another bi person is in itself a form of powerful advocacy. It's a force that only the gods could really muster up. Let's be honest.
Chad Barnier:
Yeah. Yeah. Now, I guess we would be remiss to not mention that on our activism and community episode, we are launching an online community that you are free to join is absolutely free. We have a Facebook group, the Give It To Me Bi podcast Facebook group. The links are in the show notes that we also have the Give It To Me Bi newsletter we can keep up to date with all things...
...podcast, you can connect with us, suggest content ideas, get into big debates and discussions with other people in the community about things that are important to you, that are important to community. It's a really wonderful way to meet people. Steve and I met in a very similar capacity. And so we'll implore you to join if you're interested, if you're so inclined. You can turn the notifications off if it's too much, but it'd be nice to have you. We look forward to seeing you there. Welcome along.
Steve Spencer:
Yeah, you know, Chad, we want people to be part of this podcast. So if you have ideas, tell me what merch you want me to buy and showcase at the start of that episode, because apparently that's my thing. You know, tell us what... Yeah. Yeah.
Chad Barnier:
Mmm.
Chad Barnier:
Or tell us what merch you want us to make. We who can't have podcast merch.
Steve Spencer:
Tell us what books you want us to read, what books you want us to feature, any artwork, you know, we really want this to be a space for all of us because we're nothing, we're nothing without our community and so I'm really looking forward to showcasing our wonderful awesome community. Brief break?
Chad Barnier:
Absolutely.
Chad Barnier:
Yeah, unreal. Well
, that about wraps it up for today's episode. No, wrap up. Yeah. That about wraps it up for today's episode. Next week, we are talking all about generational change and the growth of bisexuality. We believe children are the future is the famous saying and...
Steve Spencer:
Ayyyy
Chad Barnier:
Yes. Yeah. Yeah, I don't sleep well at night. That's that's other things. Yes. There's a lot of really good chat and conversation around young, young community, young bi individuals and how the youth are identifying, which is really exciting. If you enjoy this podcast, please subscribe, please share with a friend. It really helps us out. Leave a review or just...
Steve Spencer:
But you have to wait.
Chad Barnier:
You know, just listen to it once and throw your phone against the wall. I don't know. It'll be really nice if you could follow us along in the Facebook group, sign up to the newsletter, and perhaps tell us who your bi activist heroes are. Share your stories with us in the...
Steve Spencer:
Yeah, I'd love to hear it.
Steve Spencer:
Thank you everyone very much.
Show Notes
In this episode, we dive deep into activism and advocacy—two pillars that have been instrumental in shaping the Bi+ experience throughout history and into the modern day.
Activism isn't just about loud protests or public demonstrations; it's about connecting with community, standing up for what’s right, and using our unique strengths and privileges to make a difference.
For us, this topic is deeply personal.
Steve and I first met through our shared passion for advocacy and have since been part of a vibrant network of individuals committed to advancing Bi+ visibility and rights.
Whether you're an experienced advocate or someone curious about how to get involved, this episode will provide you with valuable insights, strategies, and inspiration.
Join us as we honour the legacy of past activists, highlight the challenges and triumphs of modern advocacy, and discuss the importance of leading with empathy in a world that often doesn’t understand the Bi+ experience.
Key Topics Covered
The Personal Journey into Advocacy: We discuss our personal experiences that led us to become advocates within the Bi+ community, highlighting the importance of empathy and connection in this work.
Historical Context of Bi+ Activism: We delve into the history of Bi+ activism, including key figures like Brenda Howard, Sylvia Rivera, and Alfred Kinsey, who have played crucial roles in shaping the movement.
Modern Bi+ Advocacy and Challenges: A discussion on the current state of Bi+ advocacy, the ongoing challenges faced by the community, and the strategies used to overcome these obstacles. This includes the significance of representation and the impact of personal and public advocacy.
The Role of Social Media and Technology in Advocacy: Exploration of how social media and AI are transforming advocacy efforts, making it easier to connect, educate, and organise within the community.
The Future of Bi+ Activism: Predictions and hopes for the future of Bi+ activism, including the importance of local and global connections, the role of online communities, and the need for continued visibility and representation.
The Personal Journey into Advocacy
Steve’s Story
Steve shares how his involvement in advocacy and activism became a significant part of his life. He explains that while he has a day job to pay the bills, his advocacy work is what truly feeds his soul.
Steve highlights the importance of using one’s privilege to make a positive impact, a belief that has driven his dedication to Bi+ advocacy.
His journey began with involvement in HIV advocacy, which eventually led him to co-found a grassroots organisation called Prep Access Now, significantly impacting the community by providing access to HIV prevention resources.
“Advocacy and activism... it’s saved my life in a way. It’s given me purpose because I’ve got a day job that pays the bills, but I need something to feed my soul as well.”
Chad’s Experience
Chad reflects on how his upbringing in a family deeply involved in non-profit work instilled a natural empathy in him.
However, his real awakening to advocacy came during a discussion about the gender pay gap, which completely shifted his perspective on the world.
This experience ignited his passion for activism and led him to embrace his bisexuality more openly, recognising the harm caused by not fully embracing his identity in all aspects of life.
Chad’s advocacy is driven by the desire to be the role model he needed when he was younger, helping others feel seen and understood.
“I needed this from somebody when I was 14. Why aren’t I doing this for someone else when they’re that age? And yeah, I’ve recognised that that has made a really big difference in my community.”
Historical Context of Bi+ Activism
Brenda Howard – The Mother of Pride
The episode pays homage to Brenda Howard, a key figure in the LGBTQIA+ community and the organiser of the first Pride marches. Her work laid the foundation for the visibility and activism that continues today.
Sylvia Rivera – A Trailblazer for Trans and Bi+ Rights
Sylvia Rivera, a bisexual trans woman, is highlighted for her significant contributions to the early Pride movement and her advocacy for the rights of sex workers and trans individuals through the organisation STAR (Street Transvestite Action Revolutionaries).
Alfred Kinsey and the Kinsey Scale
The discussion also touches on Alfred Kinsey’s controversial yet impactful work on human sexuality. His development of the Kinsey Scale in the 1940s was revolutionary in acknowledging the spectrum of sexual orientation, challenging the binary understanding of sexuality prevalent at the time.
Modern Bi+ Advocacy and Challenges
Visibility and Representation
Steve and Chad discuss the ongoing challenge of visibility within the Bi+ community. Despite the progress made, Bi+ individuals often face erasure and discrimination, even within the broader LGBTQIA+ community. The episode emphasises the importance of being loud and proud, using personal experiences to connect with others and foster a sense of community.
“Just being out is political and it is revolutionary to let people in. I’m out, I’m proud, and I’m loud. And I have people messaging me every other week saying, ‘Hey, I am too.’”
“We’re still building visibility. We’re actually still trying to prove to people that we exist. We’re decades behind the gay community... we are at the point where we actually need to be flying our flag.”
The Impact of Social Media
Social media is recognised as a powerful tool for advocacy, allowing individuals to connect, share experiences, and organise on a global scale. However, Chad also cautions about the fragility of these platforms, encouraging listeners to build communities offline as well, through local events and newsletters, to ensure sustainability.
“Advocacy in the social media era... it’s not just a great platform, but it’s a great way for you to network and connect with these people. It’s really exciting that the activists we see today aren’t some ivory tower; they’re just like you and me.”
“Social media is fantastic, but we don’t own those channels. The second someone who means us harm, or is maybe a bit naive to our experience, says ‘I don’t like this page,’ you could lose an entire following like that. It’s important to connect with people offline as well.”
AI in Advocacy
The potential of AI to support advocacy work is explored, particularly in levelling the playing field for communities that lack resources. While acknowledging the limitations of AI, especially regarding data representation, the discussion highlights how AI can be a valuable tool for amplifying Bi+ voices and creating change.
“AI is fallible, right? Our communities haven’t been visible, our histories haven’t been documented, and that means AI models might not fully understand or represent us accurately. ... These AI models are trained off existing content and media, and because we as a community haven’t had our histories documented, AI might miss the nuances of our experiences. This is especially true for intersectional communities where the lack of data is even more pronounced.”
“AI is a resource. Our communities don’t have funding. We don’t have resources. So, for those people who are in the know and have the capability, using tools like AI to prop up our community is crucial.”
If this episode resonated with you, consider how you can contribute to the Bi+ community.
Whether it’s by simply being visible in your daily life, getting involved in local advocacy, or even leveraging AI and social media to amplify your voice, there’s a role for everyone in the movement.
Join our Facebook group and subscribe to our newsletter to stay connected with fellow advocates and keep the conversation going.
