Ep 005 - Debunking Bi Myths and Stereotypes

Written By Chad Barnier

Audio

Video

  • Chad Barnier: On today's episode of the Give It To Me Bi podcast.

    We have a really exciting topic we're talking about today. We are dispelling Dismantling, pulling apart and saying a big F you to all the stereotypical shitty things that people say about bisexual people Bi myths, if you will those myths. Yeah, we we've gathered a big old list from people online from our experiences in community and and other Corners of the internet, and we are going to come up with a bunch of responses.

    We've noticed that people might have a hard time battling some of these stereotypes and myths. Often we are up against a wall or in conversation, perhaps it's over Christmas dinner and your drunk uncle has said something shitty to you. And you feel a bit thrown off. It's nice to have something in your back pocket that you can use as ammunition or or just to hold your own.

    So this is a bit of a resource for community and allies as well to be a great ally to know a little bit more about the bisexual lived experience.

    Steve Spencer: It's really important that we. You and I, Chad, have years of experience in this space, but a lot of people, especially if they're starting out on their journey with their bisexuality, might not know, like they'll know the feeling, they'll know that these myths are wrong, they'll know that these things don't feel right, but unless you've got the language and the data even, or the information or other people's lived experiences to be able to inform how you deal with that, you can just go, Oh, And and it's even like things like as simple as the definition of bisexuality, right?

    When you, so many Bi people don't understand the definition of bisexuality, but we know that it has nothing to do with gender, but you just can't put a lot of people just can't put their finger on it. So we're going to go through all sorts of things, all sorts of the myths and stereotypes that So many of us know all too well that will hopefully disappear from the faceless planet and and for my little most episodes I like to wear or I have something fun and so for the listeners, I am wearing, I like to say if it's printed on a t shirt, it must be true.

    I'm wearing my bisexual men exist.

    Chad Barnier: Love it. Is this Vaneet Mehta merchandise or is this the same sentiment?

    Steve Spencer: Same sentiment. I hope there were royalties that went to Veneet, but I don think it from etsu. great. Also love it. I bought the book though. Fantastic.

    Chad Barnier: Little shout out. Fantastic. Yes. The, your merch every week is a great plug to tell people.

    We are on YouTube. So come over to YouTube. You can see Steve and all of his merch and his Bi flag and his Bi books in the background of his frame right now.

    Steve Spencer: Yeah. And you can always see how hectic my setup is compared to Chad's. So when you watch the YouTube, you'll see that Chad has the most spectacular little studio in his home.

    And we, I moved house halfway through filming this first season. And so I've just, I've got a different background every single time. Sometimes I'm in bed, who knows what's happening, but this is a new, my.

    Chad Barnier: I like it. This is a great backdrop. You've got death. I I'm excited because I know where this is in your house.

    I'm excited to see somebody walk to the kitchen to get a little snack while we're recording.

    Steve Spencer: Oh, no no one's here, but I do have my Bi flag. On my door then.

    Chad Barnier: Steve, that's when you were supposed to say that you were the little snack.

    Steve Spencer: Oh, god, Chad.

    Chad Barnier: I am very interested in, what was your Bilight of the week?

    I feel like I'm so excited to hear about your week every time. I'm always excited to hear your Bilight.

    Steve Spencer: Okay nothing too saucy this week. Of course, it's Bi Visibility Month currently Bi Awareness Week, and soon to be Bi Visibility Day. And so

    Chad Barnier: Speaking of those greedy bisexuals, we've got three of them.

    Steve Spencer: We're taking the whole quarter next year. We are taking them. Yeah. And so it's Bi overload at the moment. There's just so much happening. It's awesome seeing not just our community speaking up, but for the first I feel for the first time a lot of organisations are stepping up and celebrating Bi Visibility Month this time around.

    And putting effort into it. So I'm seeing just social media is a wash all things Bi+ at the moment,

    which is great. That's awesome. I haven't seen that much personally. So I'm excited to jump onto your algorithm and see some of these queer orgs doing what they should be doing. Chad, the bar was low, so the bar is

    low.

    The bar was low, and I'm seeing improvement. One of my Bi for this week is we are in official launch of the podcast, so we've got three episodes out and they came out in the last, say, 10 days, and we are getting. Just the best reaction from community people are joining our private Facebook group and connecting with each other.

    People are writing in to tell us what the podcast means to them. We are connecting with different Bi influencers. Is that a thing? Can you be a Bi influencer? And having great conversations about like, how do we mobilise a community together? And that's been really cool. One thing I'm super excited about is.

    Episode three has come out and that's what I'm quite proud of talking about the generational shifts of bisexual identification. Yeah, it is such a cool thing to talk about in Bi visibility month because I think sometimes when you're in the thick of it or you're living your own life, it's hard to see the visibility taking effect.

    But when you see that generational identification is. tripling every generation, there must be something happening that is working. And so a big shout out to everyone living their life, being political just by existing. That's really cool. So that's my Bi highlight is the community just existing as they are and being exceptionally bisexual.

    Yeah,

    Chad Barnier: beautiful.

    Steve Spencer: It really is an overload. We've got our podcast out Bi everything, Bi events happening. I did a speaking event for Bi visibility week, just so much happening.

    Chad Barnier: I'm excited to do some more speaking events. I, in previous years have done Bi events for Bi viz month. And I haven't done any this month.

    Steve Spencer: And with, so it's Bi visibility month, September, and then we have Bi. health awareness month in March as well. So that's a really great opportunity as well for organisations to bring some Bi visibility for Bi health one.

    Chad Barnier: We're only a few months away getting our inboxes. This topic, Steve, can I just say, I'm very excited.

    I wrote like a little bit of a ranty intro.

    Steve Spencer: Yeah everyone listening. I had a look at it. I had a squiz at our shared notes. And I'm just thinking is Chad alright?

    Is Chad doing alright today? I should probably just give him a bit of a ring and see how things are going. And then I looked at the topic and I'm like, oh we're talking about myths and stereotypes.

    And I'll tell you what there's nothing more that grinds my gears than all of these crazy myths and stereotypes that surround us. So often I just deal with it with humor. But I think what we're doing on today's episode is so important to actually face them, to not pretend they don't exist, which is also something I try and do.

    But actually stare them down and say, you're wrong.

    Chad Barnier: So as bisexuals, we I've heard all of these myths and stereotypes before, so why do we need to be repeating them? And I know that it can be quite triggering to hear a lot of these things, and so we're, we don't take that for granted we don't say any of these things so lightly, as to think that Oh, no one's going to be affected by this.

    We are affected by it ourselves. And so we have witnessed over the years that in community and personally, online and offline, that bisexual people are often left having to defend themselves against these things. Yeah. And when you are backed against the wall, like I was saying in the intro, You don't always have the best defense.

    It's that classic thing of after a fight, five minutes later you come up with something you wish that you have said instead. So we have been in this situation quite a few times, and we've had those five minute later thoughts many times. And the idea behind this episode is to collate them into one episode.

    Single resource that you as someone in the community or potentially an ally who wants to fight the good fight can view this as a resource I come from like sales and marketing right and in that world we call this a battle card so when you call a prospect for it to sell to them. You have a, or every potential question that someone could come up with and you've already got answers for it.

    So you're prepared to just carry the conversation forward and not get distracted by something that might derail the conversation. The point of this is to help you feel more confident, maybe potentially more educated. Next time you're up against Maybe a family member. You know those people that kind of call themselves a devil's advocate?

    I fucking hate those people. I feel like someone's saying, I'm just going to be a devil's advocate. Someone say, I'm just going to be a fuck for a second.

    Steve Spencer: It's but it's the question that other people want to ask. And I'm like, no,

    Chad Barnier: "everyone was thinking it. I was just saying it." no, you suck. So this isn't a perfect list. It's something we could build up. And build upon over time. If you've got responses to these that are particularly effective, please, we want to hear them. Let's bring them all together and we'll publish it on our website and everyone can use this together.

    I've done this previously. I remember in Australia, we had the horrible Australian marriage Equality plebiscite and debate. And I was inspired at the time to write a really lengthy Facebook post that just, I delved into the comment section of, on every shitty news media post and got just the worst of the worst comments and just had a clap back to every single one of them.

    And that post went really viral. And I see this as it's a spiritual sibling of some sort. We are big data nerds. Some of these will be backed up by studies and data. Some of them won't be because you don't need data to support that you as a person are valid. And this is gets to the crux of my point at the end of the day.

    So what most of these points in these myths aren't true, but what if they were? What if someone. Was a big ol slut, and was hypersexual, wanted to sleep around. So what? What if someone is confused about their sexuality? So what? Like, why do any of these points remove somebody from your kindness, your care, your empathy, and their humanity?

    Does that make them beneath somebody else? Absolutely not.

    Like other people aren't flawed?

    Exactly. Should we cast out everyone who isn't perfect? Absolutely not. So this is the crux of the point is "so what?" However, if you feel compelled to have answers to these myths, here we are. Thank you. I'll hop off my soapbox and pour another glass of wine.

    Steve Spencer: Get down from there. Get down.

    No, I love it. It's you're really passionate about this chat. And it's something a lot of people shy away from. You just oftentimes, you just try and pretend that those things don't exist or you ignore them, right? And that's, that can be an effective an effective way to deal with these sorts of things.

    And also, that's another good point for the listeners. It's deal with, By phobia and Bi erasure and these Bi myths in the way that's most appropriate for you. We're not telling you that this is the way, but we are just giving you the tools if you so choose to go down this path.

    Totally. And chat, I, we're a little bit different. I'm really glad we're doing the episode, but I often say like at a lot of the talks that I do, a lot of the public speaking talks I do they'll say, Oh can you tell us what some of the stereotypes are? And I'll often kindly decline. I'll often say, no I actually don't want to go through.

    That's great. Yeah. Because if someone in the crowd has never heard any of these stereotypes I don't want to be the one to teach it to them. Wow. That's great. We want, I love that. We want these stereotypes. We want these myths to die out. That's a utopia. We're not at that point. These myths are prevalent in both the queer community and in broader society.

    And there's something that have to be addressed and it's something that we have to be well equipped, equipped for. So I say, bring it on.

    Chad Barnier: Let's fucking go.

    Steve Spencer: Let's go.

    Chad Barnier: Hit us with any one you want to start with.

    Steve Spencer: okay all right, I don't know if I'm in the right document here bisexuals are all obsessed with the action adventure film, The Mummy.

    Chad Barnier: No, but that's true. There's no myth.

    Steve Spencer: I'm in the wrong doc I'm in the wrong document. That's a truth. That's a truth. We are, every single one of us is yes.

    Chad Barnier: I love that The Mummy has been mentioned in three out of four episodes.

    Steve Spencer: I need to expand my wheelhouse, Chad.

    Chad Barnier: That's so funny.

    Steve Spencer: Let's start with also Chad very kindly was able, we, he made a huge list of these myths and stereotypes and managed to congeal them down to several key themes.

    So we'll look at the themes and then dig into dig into the it's like common phrases that you'll hear in relation to that. So let's start off with confusion. Or indecision chat. Yeah. Great. So give us, can you give me an example of confusion or indecision when it comes to something biphobic?

    The first thing that people hear probably most often is that bisexuality is in some way equal to a confused person. They don't know what they want. They're figuring out their, it's a stepping stone to something else. They simply just unsure of their sexual identity. And as I say my first answer for this, you will notice that this will be a theme throughout all of the answers, so we won't repeat ourselves.

    But first and foremost, bisexuality is a valid orientation. It is valid, it is real, it is not made up, it is not a figment of anyone's imagination. Literally, it's literally a normal human sexuality.

    Chad Barnier: You potentially have a confusion. Or an inability to understand or acknowledge or recognise my identity or my truth.

    the confusion isn't mine. And so I think that is a nice rebuttal itself. Flip it. It's so I'm saying you just confuse it. So the confusion, honey, isn't mine. That's not my confusion. Yeah. I think also this narrative of bisexuals are confused is bizarre because it assumes that nobody else is confused as well.

    Let's say that. People who are bisexual are confused, or there is a cohort of bisexuals who are confused. Are there no confused gays? Are there no confused lesbians or straights? I would posit there's quite a few. We know, we discussed last week in the Gallup poll, there's a lot of people who previously identified as straight, gay, and lesbian who now identify as bisexual.

    I think it sounds like there are potentially some confused people in those identifying areas. So it was the confusion, just acknowledging that people are capable and have the capacity to know their own truth. And one of my favorite musical theatre songs is called 'I Am What I Am'. It's from La Cage a Folle.

    It's just beautiful. It's one of the only songs that is a guarantee cry for me, and it's so true to this. It's like I am what I am. I'm saying it with my full chest. Just hear me, Steve. What are some of your comebacks to the idea of confusion?

    Steve Spencer: The confusion, I could easily describe myself when exploring my bisexuality as being confused, but it's not because I was confused about who I was.

    It was confusion about what society told me I should be. And society's always telling us we should be gay or straight. And the confusion is only in why is society telling me that this isn't real, and that's society gaslighting you as a bisexual person, it's horrible, it can do all sorts of things to your mental health.

    That's the other thing, it's a flippant comment. Bisexuals are just confused, or if someone says, that tells you they're bi, and you even say as a joke, a lot of people will say these things, a lot of these things we'll go through tonight, we'll say these things as a joke, without realizing that they are extremely harmful and extremely hurtful, and until you walk in our shoes, you actually don't know how hurtful it can be, what we've been through to get to where we are,

    Chad Barnier: and I know people who, Have been exploring their sexuality and have heard things like this and has sent them on a bit of a spiral or a path or a detour of their identification journey that could last months or years and so that little comment that little joke.

    Sure, haha funny, and you probably don't mean anything by it, but one of the things that I've learned in advocacy circles is that impact is more important than intent. You might not mean harm, if you cause harm, you should start to take accountability for your actions and your words a little bit more.

    So the example that I always use is if I accidentally break your arm, I didn't mean to do that. However, you are still stuck with a broken arm for however long it takes to heal. So you might be like, yeah, cool. Chad didn't mean it. But this still sucks. I still can't do all the things I'd like to do.

    The same thing can happen in physical harm and emotional harm or social harm, all these different areas. So a little comment, a little joke, can really suck. However, shutting it down and actually having someone else shut it down that may not be in community can be incredibly powerful and it can actually cut that harm at its source.

    And this is a particular shout out to allies and people who aren't in community. Hearing these things, you might be around your boys or your girls or whoever, and you might not know that there are other people who might be questioning or exploring their sexuality in the space. So you think, oh, that's fine.

    I don't need to call out. There's no, no one Bi in the room, so no one's affected. However, the people who might not be out are probably the people who are most, able to be hurt by a comment like that and so it always here we go the big word from episode 2 it behooves you to call it out regardless of what crowd you think you're in I know so many situations where I've been with the boys, that's not my typical crowd but where someone says something shitty homophobic biphobic and just like if one person said, that's not fucking cool what are you talking about

    Steve Spencer: yeah it's not funny that's not funny

    Chad Barnier: that's not funny and it's just.

    Actually wrong. It's oh man, that would have gone a long way.

    Steve Spencer: Yeah. Let's stop making jokes about Bi people, unless they're about finger guns and not being able to sit on seats properly. If

    Chad Barnier: you could answer every single one of these points with, so what, right? Bisexuals are just confused, man. Yeah, cool, man. So what? You never been confused before? What are you so certain about? What are you so certain about that you are above like caring about someone figuring this shit out?

    Steve Spencer: And that's the thing. It's you take the power away from people just be like so what?

    Chad Barnier: Especially even just like this week, the people who have connected with us after the launch of the podcast are showing me all these different corners of the community that I will never be a part of, but I am now privy to, and just witnessing that you Yeah, there are a bunch of people out here who are confused.

    That's fine. But you calling them confused doesn't make it easier for people. What are you hoping to achieve? So so I just want to like, honor everyone listening that these things might be you and might be how you identify in some capacity that doesn't validate or invalidate your experience.

    You are perfectly and wonderfully you keep being that way.

    Steve Spencer: Absolutely. And I think a lot of people in our community before they've done a lot of hard work and figuring out the nuances of their sexuality. A lot of people confuse fluidity for confusion. So Oh, like my attraction actually does look different week by week, month by month, year by year.

    That's. That's a pretty confusing experience if you've never actually had someone sit down with you and actually explain, Hey that's called sexual fluidity. It's very common. It's very normal. It's just a part of who you are.

    Chad Barnier: It's so common. We have a dumb pun about it called the Bi cycle that like, at different times of my life, I may experience this attraction thing differently.

    And that's fine. Yeah. Yeah.

    Steve Spencer: For people outside of our community, they might look at that and be like, Oh, they're just confused. But I experienced the bicycle myself and I'm like, no, I'm just I'm just doing my thing. I'm being exactly who I am. This is just what my sexuality does. And instead of fighting against it or, believing people when they tell me I'm confused, it's no, this is perfectly normal.

    Chad Barnier: Let's move on to our second category. So obviously it's a very emotional, very heated kind of topic. Category two is around the topics of promiscuity and hypersexualisation. Notably, this isn't about trustworthiness and that kind of thing. That's another topic later. This is more about the promiscuity of bisexuals.

    Steve, take it away.

    Steve Spencer: Why are you looking at me when you say promiscuity?

    Chad Barnier: You know why.

    Steve Spencer: Oh, my twenties are over.

    I laugh about it and I can look at my own behavior and everything and be like, Oh I've certainly been promiscuous. It's got nothing to do with my sexuality. And all of these things have nothing to do with someone's sexuality. You can be you. We are all individuals with all our own quirks and behaviors that make up who we are.

    And there's no one set rule of what it means to be bisexual. But the people who are pushing these lies and these myths, like Bi people are promiscuous, are trying to paint us all with the same brush. This one is really upsetting because it does have so many flow on effects. It has flow on effects in how we.

    How we have relationships with people that has flow and effects in research. It has flow and effects in how we are viewed, how we are treated how policy is written about us. Because so often these myths do have huge influence and why pushing back on them is so important.

    Chad Barnier: I really like that you mentioned things like policy.

    There is an inherent negativity when it comes to the idea of promiscuity. It is, it traces back to this kind of Christian family values idea and the nuclear family that you must look a certain way to be a valid member of society and certain types of people more often than not. the not in power. And this is a bit of like a dog whistle of people who cannot be trusted in queer history, particularly the eighties and nineties.

    This was used quite vitriolically, is it a word horribly against the bike community. And we'll get to that in category six, but just to a bit of it really can make a big difference to how people are treated not just interpersonally, but at a policy and health services and that kind of level as well.

    Steve Spencer: Yeah. At a huge level. There's there's that idea that bisexuals, because We are not limited by gender when it comes to our attraction and our behavior, that the assumption is that we will go around and root anything.

    Chad Barnier: Yeah, so much so that there is, there's a, there's a line, 'anything that moves' and bisexuals.

    Actually in the nineties, I want to say, had a magazine, like a zine that went around called anything that moves the kind of reclaiming the but yes it's the idea that like you'll fuck anything,

    which is crazy because

    Steve Spencer: at the end of the day, bisexual we are just like everyone else We have preferences, we have we have certain quirks, we have certain behaviors, we have certain lifestyle types, but it's not based on our sexuality.

    So promiscuity has absolutely nothing to do with bisexuality.

    Chad Barnier: Also, some people probably have shitloads of riz and some people probably don't have riz. I've been in a monogamous relationship for over a decade. I've not dated for a long time, but when I was dating I I wasn't, I didn't have the capacity or the ability to hook up with lots of people.

    I it just it sounds like it would be available. It just isn't for a lot of people. Look, I'm Bi and I'm tired, which means nothing's happening. So this all goes into the ideas around bisexuality and monogamy and non monogamy. The idea that that Bi people are promiscuous, therefore we're incapable of having monogamous or simply loving relationships with people.

    Steve Spencer: That way, sex crazed that all this silly stuff also things like we are attracted to multiple genders because out of greed or selfishness to hedge our bets and that's crazy that someone who is not attracted to multiple genders definitely came up with that sort of a line because it's Literally not something we can help or something we can change.

    It's just something intrinsic in us.

    Chad Barnier: I think something else when it comes to the promiscuity and hypersexualisation, or even just like the idea of You just have more options is that anyone bisexuals don't pursue relationships based solely on opportunity and availability. It's fucking weird like we people are attracted to each other through attraction and connection and so many other factors otherwise outside of our parts go together or or something like that.

    It just feels really. Like a seven year old's understanding of how relationships work. And I feel like you're almost telling on yourself of I don't have good relationships and healthy relationships in my life that I think, you know what I mean? Like it feels really dumb. One, one thing I have heard from monosexual people, so that's gay or straight people.

    Steve Spencer: I've literally heard this, oh, if I was bi, oh gosh I'd have sex with everybody. And my response to that is that says a lot more about you than it does about bisexuality.

    That's a that's a you, that's a you. I think we need to talk about consent, babe. I think we need Because bisexuality isn't incredibly visible in many different corners of the human experience, people haven't thought about it with enough intention that they are just saying the first thing that comes to mind, which is usually something shitty they heard.

    Chad Barnier: Yeah. Absolutely. One more thing I want to touch on the promiscuity, hyper sexualisation. The tried and true, the ever faithful, they're always down for a threesome.

    Again, why are you looking at me

    Chad Barnier: when you say that, Jack? You actually identified as a unicorn on a previous episode. So you will take that.

    Steve Spencer: I do. With the acknowledgement of how problematic unicorn hunting can be.

    Chad Barnier: Reclaiming the unicorn. Yeah. For a lot of people, there is this fetishisation about. You could have what I can't have and therefore you must be doing it all the time or you must want to all the time because my relationship doesn't look like that or my experience doesn't look that way if what you're saying before, if I were you, I would be down for a threesome all the time and putting that on people's lived experience.

    Steve Spencer: Yeah, so often it's that, it's, if I was bi, I would be these things, and it's you're not, and we're not we're not these things when it comes to saying, if I was gay, I would do this, it's yes, but, just saying, if I was gay, means that, By definition, I'm not. Therefore, don't think that way.

    Chad Barnier: Therefore, my whatever I say next is going to be flawed. Yeah,

    Steve Spencer: exactly. And I think a lot of this also comes down to how pop culture has often portrayed bisexuality. And you look at Bi characters. And storylines, and we're so often portrayed as a hyper sexualisad character, as the suave man who sweeps everyone and everything off their feet when I'm just a nerd, I'm not suave in the slightest, I do very little sweeping off feet, I do, I just sweeping on the floor of my snacks. And so it's funny to look at these portrayals of bisexuality and how influential those are on how people then go on to view us. And so that's why it's really awesome seeing these days a lot a lot more diverse Bi characters, a lot more rich real Bi characters actually reflecting us.

    And hopefully that'll go some way to fixing some of these things.

    Chad Barnier: Very keen to talk about Bi representation in media on a future episode. It is on the list. Send us your thoughts on that topic. So the next category. Category is. The category is number three, invalidating bisexuality. So this is a little bit of a catch all kind of category because there's a few things that kind of don't fit in a lot other areas.

    Just the first one. Bisexuality doesn't exist. Cool. Why the heck are we saying LGBTQ we're in there. Wait a second.

    Who's saying that? You don't exist. Who's speaking right now? Where did Chad go?

    Chad Barnier: It is just bizarre. It's like saying, Just deciding that I don't drink coffee, this is tea, while making yourself a coffee.

    Just because you can't name it or refuse to name it, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. What the heck are you talking about? That thing is a thing. I always come back to this. What is The consequence of acknowledging it, there's something in the way in your capacity, your line of thinking, whatever, your world experience, that something about acknowledging it is a threat to you.

    What is the fear? I don't know, it just feels fucking silly to

    Steve Spencer: me. Have you got a counter at home that's been like, it's been zero, 003 days since the last time I heard bisexuality doesn't exist. We had another one. So what immediately came to mind when you were talking about the bisexuality doesn't exist myth is another myth that we hear almost

    Chad Barnier: the flip of it, right?

    Steve Spencer: The flip of it. And as we go through this list, you'll see a lot of these, a lot of the myths completely what's the word? Completely.

    Chad Barnier: Diametrically opposed.

    Steve Spencer: Diametrically opposed. And yet said with as much forceful sureness. So we hear bisexuality doesn't exist. But then we also hear the myth that, Oh, everybody's a bit bi.

    And it's like, how can those two things be true at the same time? And both statements are problematic. Saying everybody is a bit Bi is is often used to downplay the existence of bisexuality, the importance of and uniqueness of bisexuality.

    Chad Barnier: Actually, this is something I wanted to say in the intro.

    Everything's very shallow. A lot of these thoughts are just the, like a first thought and not a second, third or fourth thought. It's no one, it's almost like no one ever questioned themselves to come up with a stronger point. They just sound very shallow and silly. It sounds like again, a 15-year-old boy just like me,

    Oh my God.

    Steve Spencer: I love that experimenting one because I'm like, isn't life one big experiment?

    Chad Barnier: How is that a negative? They're experimenting, babe. You should be like . Yeah. I think the big one in this category is they're doing it for attention. So much of it is directed at women, in particular, about the doing it for the male gays.

    Oh, she's just Sophie's hooking up with Vanessa because Ryan thinks it's hot. It's I know plenty of straight people and plenty of gay people who do tons of shit for attention. Hello? Hello. Hey. The it's sex, it's performative, whoever. It's like what is it? We're all born naked.

    The rest is drag. Everything we do in life is a performance. It's all for attention. Communit, I might also say here cause it, it affects women in a really unique way, but, the notion of doing it for attention and it being part of the male gaze also affected Bi men. Particularly from gay men.

    Steve Spencer: So tell me more. I have been told so many times, and this isn't invalidating my bisexuality, that I am just doing it for saying I'm bi, for the attention, saying I'm Bi because it's cool, and also because like it gives me apparently it gives guys and air of like masculinity or like an edge.

    And like this,

    Chad Barnier: cause there's this whole within the gay community, there are a lot of issues around masculinity. There's a lot of issues around fetishizing straight men, that sort of stuff. And so Bi men, there's this sort of, School of thought within the gay community that Bi men are just gay men that are trying to pretend to be straight.

    Steve Spencer: That's

    Chad Barnier: interesting. Thank you for saying that. I personally haven't experienced that. That's a very interesting

    Steve Spencer: point. And that I'm saying that I'm Bi for the attention of gay men. So I'm, like, I've got bi, I've got Bi on my Grindr profile, right? Yeah. And I've got it on there so that I can meet other Bi guys.

    There are lots of couples on Grindr. And I also want trans people to know that I'm interested. I want people to know that I'm down for it. I'm from that, going back to the promiscuous category but I've had gay guys say to me like, Oh, why do you have to put I in your in Profile, like why are you trying to be cool?

    And I'm like, this isn't for you. I have to say that to gay people. I'm just like, I'm not talking to you when I'm saying that I'm a Bi man, because I'm not trying to impress you. This goes into another myth, which we haven't listed here, that Bi people are apparently, we're apparently cool. And we are pretending to be bi, to be cool.

    There's no apparently about it. I've never met a bigger group of dweebs in my entire life than the Bi community, and I say that with all the love as Queen Dweeb here. I think if people with this whole, I'm doing it for attention stereotype, I think people just need to acknowledge that other people we're not always communicating at you, right?

    Like we, everyone isn't talking to me at every point in time.

    And

    Steve Spencer: if I believe that, if I believe that everything is a sign made for me, every behavior, I go crazy. Yeah, but be like you would get such a warped idea of what the world was and I'm and you impose your own belief system onto other people and it's about removing your belief system

    Chad Barnier: the idea that doing something for attention is inherently wrong.

    Is to belittle everything about the human experience as we know it in this contemporary world. Everything we do is for attention. I've been to the Mardi Gras after parties. There's a lot of attention seeking, a lot of Have you seen the

    freaking parade? It's not demure, the parade's not

    Chad Barnier: demure.

    Yeah, attention is the commodity that we deal with in 2024. That's the currency that we have to work with. So if it was for attention, so what? But it's bizarre to think that there's in, in some way inherently a negative thing. Wake up. I think something that, I want to acknowledge before we move on to the next category is I hear a lot from older gay men say things like, Oh, I was bisexual when I was younger.

    Don't worry, honey. We all come out. There could be a lived experience of I had to come out as something not gay. And there is the problematic idea that bisexuality is on the way to gay. Or it's half gay or it's gay light or diet gay or whatever you want to say, like that it's lesser of a burden to come out as bisexual, which as we have discussed a bit and we'll continue to discuss, it's not a lesser burden.

    And also you have to come out every fucking day, as opposed to being gay where you're assumed to be gay. But yeah, there, there is this idea of I know this bisexual thing, you little youth, you'll be gay eventually. Don't worry. Your truth is your truth. If you want to be bi, if you want to be gay, if I can just do you, that's fine.

    Steve Spencer: Yeah, I've, I remember I did a podcast with a friend a couple of years ago a gay guy, a gay friend of mine, and He said to me for the first time, and it really made a light bulb go off in my head because I've been trying to figure out for ages, like why do so many gay men in particular not believe that bisexuality exists?

    And he said to me so many gay guys come out and Bi before they come out and is gay. And so they look at you. So he said Steve, they look at you and think that you're. You still got your shoelace stuck on that stuck on that last rock and you're still jumping over the gay town and it's Oh, that makes sense.

    And it goes back to what I said before, don't project your experiences and your belief systems onto other people just because you identified it Bi, for example, Six months when you were quite young and didn't actually have the lived experience of a Bi person. Don't assume that those of us who have lived it our entire lives are not bi.

    Chad Barnier: I appreciate how you said that. Don't project your lived experience onto me, because this is funny. This is where I think I've grown as a person is I used to really rally against the idea of stop fucking coming out as my sexuality on the way to your sexuality, because it makes my life 10 times harder, because it makes my people I'm in relationships with question me and doubt me, like so much of the distrust of bisexual men or bisexual women is because other people come out as bisexual and then otherwise.

    Don't fucking do that. It's annoying. It's making my life harder. However, I have since chilled on that point. Because everyone's experience is their own fucking experience. If that's what you needed at that time to feel safe, to feel comfortable, to explore your sexuality as something other than heterosexual as something other than whatever.

    Then fucking live your life. That's totally fine. That's your lived experience. I'm here for you. That's why I really appreciate that. You said don't project your lived experience onto me. That's fine. You had that experience in your coming out journey. I did not. I have always been Bi some people don't have that experience.

    Some people have a more fluid relationship with their identity. That's also fine. But I'm not bisexual because you stopped off in Bi town. I have a unique not a unique experience. There are a lot of people like me the experience of coming out as gay before coming out as bi.

    Steve Spencer: So the whole Bi now gay later thing, I just look at people. I'm like, I tried the gay thing and hell no, I can. Definitely say with authority in my own experience after having come out as gay quite early and lived that life and then came out as my true sexuality as bisexual. That it is. Significantly easier.

    It was for myself to come out as gay, to be gay. Like we said at the top of the show, society expect people to be gay or straight. It's absolutely by no means easy to be gay at all in this world. But what we don't talk about is how bloody difficult it can be to be bi, but also how incredible it can be.

    Chad Barnier: So the category is distrust. And relationship stereotypes. Now, this is category four. We've got a few to get through and it's already a long episode, so we're not going to rush through anything, but we might stop repeating ourselves on particular points that we've mentioned previously.

    Intro: You have given me so many pointed looks this entire episode.

    No, I'm looking at myself, I swear,

    Chad Barnier: man. I, when I get on the red and I have a good topic. Stop me. Okay, so this is maybe a tentpole of the episode. This is one of the pointy parts that we as a community have to fuck with the most because it's one of the things that comes flying at us the most.

    And that is that Bisexual people are more likely to cheat. Where does this come from? Why is this a

    Steve Spencer: thing? For those listening and not not watching Steve is currently turning green and becoming the Hulk. Out of anger at the idea that bisexuals are more likely to cheat. There's a lot to

    Chad Barnier: unpack in this.

    That, actually I just, this one angers me so much that I'm almost like, It does. I find it so hard to start this is one that I have had to confront so many times, and it frustrates the shit out of me. The idea that bisexual people are more likely to cheat is, number one, already attached to a few things we talked about before about promiscuity, all that kind of stuff.

    This assumes, number one, a monogamous relationship, which I know that a lot of the bisexual community are in monogamous relationships. So I see you. I love you, I am also in a monogamous relationship, and it assumes, number two, that bisexual people are so incapable of communication and healthy relationships that they can't navigate these topics with their partner.

    Third, and most importantly, it assumes, somehow, that bisexual people have this insatiable sexual appetite that must be quenched you. At all times, lest there be some kind of a fucking healthy relationship or like some it, I'm so frustrated by this point that I can't even get my words out. Like that somehow being attracted to people outside of the gender of your partner.

    is so tantalizing, so mesmerizing like you have to act on it at all times or you will be unhappy or unsatisfied. It is just, it's so shallow because all people experience attraction outside of their relationship. I understand that is how some people think. I recognise that thinking that doesn't make you a bad person.

    You have also, as have we, experienced these Bi stereotypes in media and in conversations in society. So you thinking that doesn't make you a bad person, but let's question it for a second. If you are straight, or monosexual, if you're straight, if you're gay, you experience attraction to other people outside your relationship.

    You, if you have a healthy relationship, where you have boundaries and you have an understanding of we have a contract of monogamy in this relationship, you aren't acting on those attractions or urges or whatever.

    It's literally,

    Chad Barnier: yeah, sorry, I guess we really hated this one because this is probably the point that like, become some kind of undoing or tension or friction at some point, right?

    This is the thing. Or it can

    Steve Spencer: be the undoing at the very beginning as well. It has stopped. It has stopped love in its tracks forever.

    Chad Barnier: I read an article about a Bi person in our community who wrote an article a few years ago that like they're on a really fantastic date with somebody and and it was like sparks flying.

    They identified as bisexual and then the other person said, I can't do that. You'll just eventually cheat on me. Yeah, it just, obviously you can tell that I get emotional about this one. This one's frustrating. Yeah, Chad.

    Steve Spencer: It's, and thank you for being raw with us, with that. Because these things.

    Like these things, the things we're talking about, and yeah, we're having you giggle, but they hurt and they affect us every day as Bi people. These are not just throwaway myths. These are not just silly stereotypes. These are things that really hurt us. Hey, Chad, I love you. I love you. Thank you. I just wanted to say that out

    Chad Barnier: loud.

    I think the unfortunate thing that it doesn't just hurt us. It hurts our partners as well. So there are like Not only do you hurt Bi people with this this idea, but you hurt their same sex partners, you hurt their different sex partners, and you force them to walk into Either a relationship or understanding of the relationship that is stoked with doubt and stoked with mistrust, despite potentially, I don't know everyone out there's relationship, but, I guess speaking to my own relationship that previous to that may have no seeds of doubt or no seeds of mistrust or anything like that, but but the world tells bisexual people and their partners that this isn't going to work somehow.

    Steve Spencer: Yeah. It's always working against us and it's outside influences as well. You could be dating. the most Bi accepting person, someone who's never thought a moment about any of these myths and just fully accepts you, but they may have friends or family that will go, Oh, you're seeing a bisexual person.

    Aren't you worried? And that's the most horrible thing because that's. Immediately throwing those seeds in there that should never have been there in the first place and I like to say to people, if you start dating or seeing a bisexual person and your friends react with, Oh Oh, you're seeing a Bi person, aren't you a bit worried?

    That says a whole lot more about that person, that friend, I'd be worried about that friend because it says more about them than it does about the amazing Bi person you just met because you like that person for a reason.

    Chad Barnier: And I know that there is a distinct lack of resources for partners of bisexual people, who either, maybe they've always been out, maybe they've recently come out maybe it's a journey and there's an exploration but I know that there is a distinct lack of resources for those people.

    Particularly as well for like positive resources. I know that there are some quite negative resources out there that paint a an interesting picture and perhaps this is something that we need to work on is maybe a resource for partners of Bi people who are newly out and how to support the partners as well as the Bi partner in that situation.

    I'm sure there's people. The thing that might appreciate a resource like that, but but I can only imagine as a gay person a straight person dating a bisexual person. If they come out to you, you go, okay, what do I do? I want to support this person as much as possible. You jump on YouTube, you jump on Google, you jump on Reddit, all of a sudden you have all these shitty things saying just you fucking wait.

    And what are you supposed to do? You didn't perhaps have that idea very quickly. You come into you interface with that idea because it's so pervasive. What are you supposed to think? I totally sympathise with people who. Themselves in that relationship might have a hard time.

    But yeah, it sucks on both sides. It sucks that, that is so pervasive that bisexual people are more likely to cheat. Also, the word cheat is so loaded. Cheating is about breaking some kind of contract, right? We had an agreement and you've gone against that agreement hypothetically, so I can only speak to my own experience.

    I'm in a monogamous relationship. We both want that to be the case, right? I know that there's a lot of bisexual people out there who might want to experiment, might want to maybe see what is out there for them but they're currently in a monogamous relationship, acting on those urges outside of the arrangement you have with your partner, it may be defined as cheating, right?

    So I would recommend that before doing that, that You do the hard thing. The hard thing is some really tough conversations and really open conversation.

    Steve Spencer: That's exactly what I did in my last long relationship chat. We started off at a monogamous relationship and then we did what adults do and talked about it

    and

    Steve Spencer: realise that you make your own rule.

    You, you write your own rule book around relationships. There's no rule book. You do not have to do what other people tell you to do and realisa, Oh, actually we can figure out what works best for us. What helps us be fulfilled, what helps us be happy, not just as a couple, but as individuals. I think it's really important to be happy as individuals, even in relationships.

    I'm

    Chad Barnier: going to jump forward a little bit to the idea of non monogamy. Again, like I said, this isn't something that I practice. However, in queer communities, it is more prevalent than non queer communities, because we as queer people, queer politically and queer identifying, have had to unpack what relationships look like, what relationship contracts look like what sexual activity means and how that is loaded in so many more nuanced ways than perhaps people who are heterosexual or live in that kind of, cultural experience of heterosexuality.

    So your contract with your partner or partners can look like so many different things. And it comes down to your individual experience of what you and your partner expect of each other. And I would encourage people to have those conversations with their partners and be ready that it might not be what your partner is ready for themselves.

    That's tough and that's hard.

    Steve Spencer: Yeah, definitely. Definitely. For me becoming non monogamous was just the realisation that No one person can meet all of my needs no matter what they are, or we have thousands of different needs. And that my needs can only be met by certain people because some people only have the capacity and the abilities to meet certain needs.

    And it's unfair to expect people to become a chameleon and step up and overexert themselves just to make what me happy. No, how about. I want to make you happy being just the way you are. And so that's my own about non rugby there. But I think just on just my final point on the cheating thing is.

    Cheaters cheat. Bisexual people don't cheat. Any human being is capable of cheating and there is literally no evidence or reason or proof that bisexual people are more likely to cheat.

    Chad Barnier: Boom. There we go. Cool. Next category, Steve, is category five and moving right along. Bisexuality in different genders.

    The first one being all women are a little bit bi. So we talked a bit about Oh, everyone's a bit, everyone's a bit bi, right? And it's fascinating cause it says a lot about the person who is saying that statement. But then when we say all women are a little bit bi, we're looking at.

    Steve Spencer: the way that particularly Western culture has sexualisad and treated women, the way that the male gaze has manipulated women. And so the idea that female bisexuality is more acceptable or more common and whilst, and I'll preface this in that, yes, there are twice as many out Bi women than there are Bi men, but that's just people who are out in reality and the actual true numbers of Bi people, it would be even.

    We see that Bi women are more likely to be out, but it's not more common, and so if you do think, actually, if you do think that, oh, wow, like all women are a little bit bi that in reality, that also applies to men. If you have that idea of oh, all women, then okay, it's actually the same for all men.

    But it, it trivialisas the whole. experience as well. I find it, it minimisas, it can be really minimizing of your experience of being bi, especially I don't know about you Chad no, I do. Mystery Bi person in the corner who I've never met before. I don't know about you. But the journey of being able to inhabit your bisexuality fully can be a long and hard one.

    I love that the younger generation particularly are just able to pick it up and run with it. It's amazing, but for me, it was quite difficult. And so when people try and minimise it, And just say Oh everyone's a little bit, but everyone's a bit like that. It's not a big deal. It's it actually is a big deal because we live in a biphobic society.

    We live in a culture of Bi erasure. It's difficult.

    Chad Barnier: Yeah. So I think the three different myths we have in this category to me are all inextricably linked. All women. Yeah. Yeah. All women are a little bit bi. Male bisexuals are really just gay and bisexual women do it for a male attention. To me, that's the same myth.

    Number one, we prioritise male attraction, right? And so if you are bisexual. Society, you mean Chad? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Sorry. That society holds as the most authentic attraction and attraction to men. And. The idea that all male bisexuals are really just gay is just centering men the idea that bisexual women do it for male attention, same thing and that they actually straight.

    But with the first one and the third one, however, men have fetishisad women and their bodies and remove, the humanity from women and their experiences to such a degree that the whole all women a little bit Bi and do it for the male attention. Is this. You'll have a threesome or you'll be sexual for my pleasure.

    And I totally agree that society has created a narrative around that, that all women are a little bit Bi is all women will do my bidding as a man because my fetishes are thusly. So I've spoken to someone recently who is cis woman who identifies as bisexual who said, Oh, you Bi men have it so bad.

    And I feel for you guys. And I said, thank you very much for acknowledging the challenges of the Bi man. But, and I think I pulled you up on a previous episode of saying, let us not forget our Bi sisters. There is so much harm that is done to Bi women Bi men. Yeah, absolutely. But I believe that all these things under this category all tie into a dominant male gaze ideology type of idea.

    Steve Spencer: That everything revolves around the D. The D. And it goes back to what I said earlier I do it for attention. I do it to be a, what a trendy gay guy with some pro masculinity or something like that. Yeah. And coming out. I know for me, a lot of people will say Oh, that's so attention seeking or whatever.

    And it's no, like I could have, I got a lot of bullying and everything when I came out and I lost friends and I could have lost every single friend. I could have lost everything I had and I still would have been happy because I could have at least be myself. That's how little I care about the attention.

    Yeah. It's it's not for anyone but ourselves. By myths a window into the brain of the person saying it, I often think. And so when someone says, oh, everyone's, oh, everyone's, it's I think I might, I think come over

    here, come have a

    Steve Spencer: sit down. Let's

    have a little chat. The call

    Steve Spencer: is coming from inside the house.

    The call may be coming from inside the house. It's quite cool. I was sitting in an airport lounge a few months ago, and I had someone say that. They were like, oh, everyone's a bit bi. And there was a straight woman next to them, and a gay man next to them. On the other side and they both turned to her and said the gay guy was like no, I'm definitely gay.

    And the straight one's yeah I'm, yeah, I'm really comfortable with being straight. And I was just like, let's come on, let's talk.

    Chad Barnier: Okay. So moving along, category six. This idea that bisexuality is a threat. Now, this is very loaded, and there's a lot of implications here. Steve, can you walk us through a few of these?

    Steve Spencer: Bisexuality, I'm going to start off with a grand statement, bisexuality is a threat. It's a threat to how our society has been set up. Our society has been set up for monosexuality. It's been set up for it's been set up for traditional values. It's been set up for all sorts of things that Either bisexuality does represent, we represent, we do truly represent multi gender attraction as opposed to being opposed to one gender, but then our perceived threats.

    And let's have a look at some of the perceived threats here. One that is very prevalent. And one that is extremely damaging, especially for Bi men, is that bisexuality spreads disease. This also has a basis in homophobia as well. It does hit bi people in a very specific way. So the harmful myths that bisexuals, due to being attracted to both genders, are more likely to engage in risky behavior, for example, If you are a Bi man, sigma gay man, you may be viewed as being at higher risk of say, STIs because that population group has higher rates of STIs.

    Now, these are all false to say that bisexuality or bisexual at higher risk or vectors of transmission of diseases and viruses is a falsehood. There is absolutely no evidence to show any of this. I was really surprised. I'm going to give one example. So we saw npox, monkeypox two years ago, right?

    Of all the diagnoses, In the world, at that point, they did a big analysis all of the health promotion around monkeypox said gay and bisexual men beware. Now having bisexual men, and that's because gay and bisexual men have sex with other men who have sex with men are at higher risk of this virus.

    Long story short.

    Chad Barnier: And also a caveat to that is the way studies are conducted around men who have sex with men, there is the studies are done on that basis, men who have sex with men, but it is usually marketed as gay and bisexual men. And so not necessarily a truthful representation of experience.

    Sorry, just to cover that. That's all. Oh, that's an episode. We've talked about that at length for years.

    Steve Spencer: Yeah. Now having these big posters everywhere saying gay and bisexual men, you are at risk of monkey pox, as it was called at the time, now called mpox. What does that tell the world? Bisexual men are at risk of monkeypox.

    Be scared of bisexual men. They are going to have this virus. Do not sleep with us. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. When they did an analysis of all the diagnoses of monkeypox in the world, 2 percent of all people who were diagnosed with monkeypox were bisexual men. That says a lot about our behavior, but it says a lot about what we already knew is that we have our own unique sexual networks and that we are, in fact, not vectors of transmission.

    We are not the people who pass viruses from the gay community into the straight community. This, of course, being a person living with HIV myself is quite a sensitive issue because in the 80s and 90s and going on to today Bi men were literally blamed for giving straight people HIV. We now know through plenty of evidence and research that HIV was already well within the heterosexual community before even the first diagnoses were found in in gay patients.

    Science is our friend. That is. There is no evidence that we are vectors of transmission. There's no evidence that we have higher than expected STI rates. There, it's just simply not there. It's just simply not there. It's just a tidy idea in people's minds that they think makes sense, but in reality doesn't actually play out.

    Chad Barnier: I appreciate you saying that. I feel as we were saying before, so many of these ideas are shallow, or they are a first thought, and Yeah, I get why you'd think it, but Yeah, one plus one equals two, right? But, we forget that so many other nuances, and experiences, and communities, and whatever, That it like most things aren't that neat

    Steve Spencer: or how about we look, let's pretend that it is true for a second.

    What does that tell us? That tells us that everyone has to start taking responsibility for their health. So maybe if you are worried about getting STIs, you should be increasing the rates of STI. tests you get per year. When was the last time, when was the last time you got an HIV test? You should request it.

    No matter what your gender is, if you ask for an HIV test.

    Chad Barnier: You and I worked on a HIV campaign, awareness campaign what four or five years ago. And this is something that I You can't rightfully say that you do not have HIV or do not have a certain STI if you've not tested recently for it. You don't know.

    And so I used to say in surveys, I don't have X, Y, Z, whatever, but I haven't been tested in the last however many months. Do I know that? How would I know that? Do you have proof that's the case? And that was really a bit of a wake up call for me and I began getting tested after that.

    Steve Spencer: Yeah I'll throw a caveat in there as well.

    So people listening to this might go here is a bisexual man with HIV right here in our very ears. And yes, I am. Hello. But I am open and proud about my sexuality. I am open and proud about my HIV status. I'm on medication, which means I cannot pass on the virus. I am aware of my status. I take my treatment undetectable equals untransmittable.

    And that means I'm actually the safest bet.

    Chad Barnier: And there's no safer bet than somebody that knows their status and is taking proper precautions And just to say loudly again, there is medication that keeps a viral load to a level where it is undetectable and therefore untransmissible to partners.

    And if that is a concern of yours, which I think for most people isn't an active concern, but if it is the safest bet. And and one of the, one of the things, just while we're just on this little topic, my, my medication even allows me to have children that will not have HIV, which is just so incredible.

    Steve Spencer: That was one of my biggest fears because I was diagnosed around the same time as I came out, and I was like, oh my God I'll never be able to have children. And then I realisad that, oh no, the treatment fully allows for that. And if you're wondering how powerful it is, people, it's it's wonderful.

    Let's look at let's combine a couple of these ones. So there's the myth that bisexuals ruin gay and lesbian spaces and bisexuals are traitors to the LGBTQ+ community.

    Chad Barnier: I think the idea of gay and lesbian spaces is so fascinating. The same way that we had a movement in the 90s called Gay Liberation that included everybody, gay bars included everybody, gay, lesbian, bisexual, trans, transsexual at the time, transgender, since they have since.

    in the zeitgeist become gay only bars, which I think is historically inaccurate. It, they are not gay only bars. The people who have these ideas have biases and and prejudices against people who they disagree with sometimes being bisexual people. A big old middle finger to you. I'm sorry. These are our spaces too.

    We are queer enough to be in these spaces. If you want to go to any bar down Oxford street or whatever the local place is where you are listening from, you are welcome. If someone has a problem with it, That is their issue. I'm sorry that you have to deal with that kind of fuckery.

    Steve Spencer: And I want to expand on that chat as well.

    I think our partners, no matter their gender or their sexuality, should be welcome with us as well. I think It is just as harmful for Bi people to be told no, you can't come into this venue because you're bi, I think it's just as harmful to be told, oh, you can come in, but you'll, you have to leave your partner outside on the street.

    Chad Barnier: Gay. Bars, gay spaces are open to anyone who's willing to respect the sanctity of that space, to respect the space as a safe haven for people who feel marginalisad or othered and feel that this is a space for them. But if people are there in good faith to have a good time and respect the people who are also there, everyone is welcome, in my opinion.

    This also speaks to a problem that. Bisexual people don't have their own freaking spaces, and we will have a whole episode about this, but we need conversation around organizing spaces and venues and events and getting resources and funding to create spaces for bisexual people where we can exist as ourselves and, but until that point.

    Everybody knows there are no Bi specific spaces, therefore, these other spaces are ours as well. I

    Steve Spencer: always find, I've got one example that Often hits home to people because they, people will say Oh, you might not feel welcome in this space, but you've got all these other spaces to choose from. And I tell people I go into a straight pub holding a male partner's hand and I'm going to feel a little awkward.

    Might be treated a little bit different, don't quite fit in with the straight crowd. I walk into a gay bar with my female partner on my hand. I'm treated a little bit different, feels a little bit awkward, don't quite fit in. It's the same. It's across all venues. When people say that Bi people have the best of both worlds, it's more often than not we actually have the worst of both

    Chad Barnier: worlds.

    Of both worlds, yeah. I think this speaks to the whole idea of straight privilege as well, Rich. What privilege exists in being recognisad as something outside of who you truly are, that does not serve me? Me turning up to a gay bar with my partner is where I feel most comfortable. I am not going to other spaces because I don't feel comfortable there.

    I'm not going to the pub down the road to watch the footy because that's not where I feel comfortable. I want to be at the place where they're pumping Charlie and Chapel all night. That's the

    Intro: vibe. Maybe Charlie, not Chapel. Sorry, I know I'm going to get cancelled by half the listeners. You can jump in the ocean.

    Chapel forever. Chad, I've been wanting to return to the sea for

    Steve Spencer: years. I need the break. Return to the sea. I'll come out.

    Don't worry. I'll come out. And I had to think, I had to think about this whole, Privilege notion that you brought up and it's the privilege is so multi layered, right? So people will say like a bisexual person in a different gender relationship will experience heterosexual privilege, whatever that looks like, whatever that actually is.

    And let's pretend for a second sure. Okay. You can, sure. Okay. There might be some sort of privilege. You might get a discount somewhere or something like that. But if we look at other forms of privilege, sorry. I don't know, I don't know where the football

    straight

    Steve Spencer: just goes. That's

    great.

    Steve Spencer: They get free footies or something. It's so okay you're a gay man, but you're a white gay man. You experience the privileges of being white, but you have the you have the experiences of the discrimination and stigma of being gay. Now, these two things can exist at the same time. So with.

    By people, especially Bi people in different gender relationships, or what people call straight relationships or straight passing relationships. Okay, even if they experience some sort of privilege, we know for an absolute fact that they experience so many disadvantages, so much discrimination, so many poor.

    Outcomes both social and health

    Chad Barnier: that and I guess we should talk about them. We've touched on the topic. I feel like we should touch on those disparities. It's everything. I'll be doing it now. Yeah, we're talking intimate partner violence. We're talking substance use. We're talking mental health.

    We're talking homelessness. We're talking all these different areas. Bisexual people, pansexual people. Experience higher rates of all of those things, then they're straight or gay counterparts. Yeah.

    Steve Spencer: On the mental health and this is a trigger warning for people, please. I'm going to discuss some suicide and self harm statistics, but with mental health, the who I am study here in Australia, the world's largest study of BIPLUS, mental health, found that 80 percent ofBi+ people have considered self harming.

    That is twice the rate. Oh, look at all that privilege. And what privilege? When I look at that number, I say, what privilege? And when we say Oh, we've got worse rates. No, we have got double the rate of self harm consideration than gay people. That is not a privilege. That is not a privilege to have.

    And what does that tell us? That tells us that there are so many deeper structural things and things going on with Bi people that require our attention. That, that require far more than what we get require far more than these myths that we get.

    Chad Barnier: Totally. Yeah. The Bi health outcomes. So probably in so many different areas, even just substance abuse, like both like male and female minority adults have significantly elevated rates of substance use when they out as bisexual.

    Same, that's across marijuana use, the same across cocaine use, same across, I think tobacco use from memory. I could be wrong. I think it's marginal though. There are so many different areas where bisexual people are disadvantaged by being bisexual. We earn less, we have lower earning potential.

    Yeah. Did you know that? Yeah. It's hard to put a finger on why something like that is, but my interpretation of that is that there is an ease, there is a comfort in being able to live freely as yourself and have experiences in the spaces you turn up in as your true self that So much weight is shed that you get to be your full, that you live to your full potential in other areas.

    That's how I interpret that. That might not be the case. However, studies show there's less earning potential. Why is that?

    Steve Spencer: Isn't that wild? You just pick any data point and you'll be able to find where Bi people have disadvantage which is why I think you and I get so fiery about these kind of topics and why we care so much is Oh, this is an opinion.

    Chad Barnier: This is there are actual measurable disadvantages that bisexual people face. Across so many different topics that like, this is why we have Bi visibility month. This is why we have all these things. This is why we like, why is there only one fucking float in the pride parade this year? Why is there only what are we doing? We are letting down our communities. And I say to like wider communities, what are you doing? We have fought the good fight for you for so long. Where's the fight back? Like we are letting each other down. Okay. So we are reaching the end of the episode. We have one final, Bi myth.

    This is a, it's a surprisingly pervasive myth. There's something that. If you think about it for two seconds. Are you kidding? That is the myth that bisexuality is somehow transphobic. Steve, where do we get this myth from? I don't know, but it's always been B with a T. It has always been B

    with a T.

    It is always been B with a T. Always been beer with the teeth. Thank you very much. So this comes from the idea of bi. Bi meaning two, and the extrapolation of that idea that Bi means male, female, right? That it means some kind of binary, gender preference, which is just inherently wrong. Steve, can you explain what bisexuality means in a technical sense?

    Steve Spencer: Absolutely. So what you described there, if you are attracted to men and women, that would be Bi gender attraction. What we're talking about is bisexuality. So bisexuality is effectively the combination of two sexualities. So the Bi and bisexuality means two sexualities. Funny enough, it's in the name and this finds its roots in the Kinsey scale in where.

    on a spectrum of human sexuality. People are either exclusively attracted to people of the same gender or people are exclusively attracted to people of a different gender to their own. And in the middle are Bi people. So the Bi and bisexuality refers to same and different, homo and hetero.

    Bisexuality means you are attracted to people of the same gender as yours, and of different genders to your own. Inclusive of all genders. And bisexuality has always been trans inclusive. The Bi manifesto that was written decades ago, very explicitly said that there's no such thing as two genders. It's quite an early document that acknowledged a non-binary existence of human of human gender.

    Bisexuals have always been at the forefront of trans rights and trans allyship. Many Bi people are trans. And so it is a complete mystery where where this idea that bisexuals and bisexuality is transphobic came from. I can perfectly understand why people think that.

    Bisexuality means man and woman, but you just have to correct people and just tell them, oh no, it's not. It refers to being attracted to the same gender and different genders, inclusive of all genders.

    Chad Barnier: Yeah. When I hear this one, I just want to go to all of my trans friends who so many of them are bi, and then I want to go to all my Bi friends, and so many of them are trans, and just be like, Do you hate yourself?

    And not in the, like the usual hate yourself way, but it is just so funny. Like being in community, it is so obviously wrong. There's such a Venn diagram. That is it's closer to a circle than it is two circles of Bi and trans people. Because people who fuck with the dismantling of sexuality and people who fuck with the dismantling of gender probably have some kind of crossover.

    Literally. And I find this one particularly funny. Yeah, it is very problematic. And yeah, so absolutely false.

    Steve Spencer: Yeah. And also, if you just think for another further second about it, Bi people aren't bothered about what's between people's legs, just to use very primary school language. We don't care about gender.

    Gender isn't a restricting factor in how we experience attraction. So why on earth would trans people be the exception to that. It just makes absolutely no sense. There, there are some theories beyond the misunderstanding of bi as to where it came from because some other sexualities came up in popularity over the last couple of decades that More explicitly said that they were, that their attraction is regardless of gender, even though bisexuality is also sexuality attraction regardless of gender.

    And so there was a reinforcing during that period of the myth that Bisexuality was transphobic.

    Chad Barnier: Yeah, to put it more plain, I guess more plainly, so that we can attach ourselves to the discourse, is because pansexuals Oh damn it, I wasn't trying to, I don't want to throw, I don't want to throw pan people under the bus.

    I identify as pan as well. I don't think you are, because one, you and I have both declared that we are pansexual on this podcast, so one, The differentiation is bisexuality is two or more genders and pansexuality is regardless of gender. You may be bisexual and have an attraction to women and non binary folks, right?

    You aren't, that's not regardless of gender, you have an attraction to people two or more genders, sure. So there is a slight difference. People who don't understand pansexuality viewed the distinction as we're doing this because Bi people are transphobic, which is inherently wrong. I'm really I'm really glad.

    Steve Spencer: I think that idea is changing. I think people are starting to acknowledge the true, the real definition of bisexuality the real definition of pansexuality.

    Yeah. And when it comes to the labels, because when you actually explain it, people go aren't they the same thing? And I saw my response to that is yeah.

    Steve Spencer: But we pick whatever word gives you the warm fuzzies. Yeah, I love

    Chad Barnier: that. Pick one. Pick one. Which is why you and I have said previously, we identify with both. Yes. Because both of them are true to our experience.

    Steve Spencer: And it would be lying, I would be lying if I said that my attraction was regardless of gender.

    All of the time. I've dated trans people where their gender identity is really important to them and really turned me on and I'm actually attracted to them. And I really, and their gender becomes important for me in my attraction and in our relationship. And I actually think that I'd be doing them a disservice if I just went, I'm gender blind.

    I don't care what gender you are when they care a lot about what their gender is. And It, my bisexuality in many ways, I see it as pretty trans affirming as well.

    Chad Barnier: Yeah, I love that. Steve, I think there's probably more than we have time for today. There's probably a thousand more we could get to, but we have ranted, we have raved, we have rebelled.

    I think it's probably Emptied the whole library, apparently. Oh my gosh I'm down with my bottle. My voice is croaky. I think it's probably time for a nice little positive end of the episode. Put those guns away. Wow. Everybody tune into the video. I think this would be a cute time to read a podcast review.

    We have some reviews on podca on Apple podcasts and on Spotify. However, not all of them have a written response. So this one has a written response. This is from Jay McFleming. Thank you. Jay McFleming, a five star because fucking yeah. A must listen. Representation is so important and this is such an insightful.

    Funny and personal. Listen, cannot wait to hear the, all the Bi puns along the way. Better start making lists. Thank you, Jane McFlaming. You're wonderful. Thank you for passing along your good wishes. We appreciate you. If you also want to leave a review, it means a lot to us. I'm going to thank you for listening along.

    This is. Obviously a heavy conversation this one. We appreciate you sticking it out. We love you. We see you. Keep being you. Steve, do you have any final words?

    Steve Spencer: Yeah, it has been heavy. Take time. If you need dear listeners, our family, our friends all of you that we love who have been following us now for several episodes.

    This episode has been a tough one. But hopefully it can empower you. I know it certainly did for me when I actually felt less confused about these things and actually knew, Oh, you know what? I've been getting gaslit this whole time about all this stuff. It's all wrong. And I'm totally normal. I'm totally fine.

    It's awesome. And so I hope you all feel absolutely biconic, feel absolutely awesome. Enjoy. I have enjoyed your Bi Visibility Month. You can reach out to us on the Give It To Me Bi Instagram. We've been receiving some really awesome messages. We absolutely love hearing from you all. We do reply.

    It's either chat or me. We usually end the message with one of our names, or we can play guessing game as to who it is listen, review, and please share it with your friends and family. We love you all.

    Intro: Love yous.

    Chad Barnier: Have a good one. Love you all.

 

Show Notes

In this episode of Give It To Me Bi, we’re tackling one of the biggest challenges bisexual folks face—those pesky myths and stereotypes.

Whether it’s the tired accusation of “confusion,” the hypersexualisation, or the constant assumptions about monogamy, we’re here to break it all down.

We’ve both faced these myths in our own lives, and we know how damaging they can be. So, we’re sharing personal stories, using a bit of humour, and offering practical, empowering ways to respond when these stereotypes come up.

If you’ve ever struggled with how to answer someone who just doesn’t get it—or if you’ve heard one too many myths yourself—this episode is for you. Let’s dive in, debunk these myths together, and show the world what it really means to be bi.

 

Links/References

Anything That Moves

Iconic bisexual magazine from the '90s/’00s

The Kinsey Scale

The Kinsey scale, also called the Heterosexual–Homosexual Rating Scale, is used in research to describe a person's sexual orientation based on one's experience or response at a given time

Mardi Gras

The Sydney Gay and Lesbian Mardi Gras is Australia’s largest LGTBQI+ event and organisation, and widely consider Australia’s “Pride March”

Chad Barnier https://www.chadbarnier.com
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