Ep 006 - Exploring Bi+ Research & Relationships
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Chad Barnier: Before we begin, Give It To Me Bi I would like to acknowledge that we live and work on Gadigal land. We pay our respects to the traditional custodians of this land and to elders past and present. Sovereignty was never ceded and this always was and always will be Aboriginal land.
Steve Spencer: This is Give It To Me Bi the podcast, where we talk about anything and everything from a Bi+
perspective. I'm Chad Barnier and I'm Steve Spencer. Together, we're diving into the real stories, the challenges and the celebrations of the Bi+ community. We are here to learn together. And of course, to laugh together from personal journeys to cultural moments.
We are here to amplify a Bi+ point of view and spark conversations that matter. So whether you are Bi pan queer or just curious, join us as we explore the world of Bi+ experiences. Now, let us give it to you by,
Chad Barnier: Hey everyone, it's Chad and I am so beyond excited for today's episode, we are diving into Bi+ research and more specifically.
Bi+ relationships. Steve and I are so honoured and excited to introduce the incredible professor Christy Newman. Christy's been a social researcher for over 20 years and has been making waves in the LGBTQIA+ health, gender, and sexuality space. Basically, they've been, On the front lines of making sure that our voices, especially the voices of Bi+ folks, trans and gender diverse people, and intersex people are heard and represented.
In this episode, we explore some really profound insights, including something that stuck with me, the difference between being attracted to versus being attractive to. When you get there, you'll see what I mean. It's pretty cool. It can really reshape our Bi+ experience and reclaim some of that power when it comes to dating and relationships.
It's a small concept, but I think it has massive impact. We also dig into how bisexuality manifests uniquely for everyone. It's not about someone else's definitions and someone else's experience. It's about yours. It's about finding your own path and not somebody else's. This is obviously crucial for us, but also for our partners too.
Learning how we can support each other in ways that truly matter. I'm so excited for you to hear this conversation. So let's jump in. Christy, welcome. Thanks for hanging out with us today.
Christy Newman: I'm really excited to talk to you both. You've invited me to come and chat about some of my absolute favorite topics in the whole world.
So it's lovely to be here.
Chad Barnier: I'm excited to talk about Fredo frogs as well. It's a deep love of myself. So it's nice to find another Fredo connoisseur.
Steve Spencer: Wow. I didn't get those show notes.
Chad Barnier: Nice. How are we? How's our week been everyone?
Christy Newman: Busy.
Steve Spencer: Good. Yeah.
Chad Barnier: Yeah. I feel the busy this week.
Christy Newman: Yeah. A lot, lots happening at this point in history and but this particular point in the year as well, also Sydney Swans are in the grand final, so that's a very exciting thing.
Chad Barnier: I'm not a sports ball person, yeah, but I am off to a grand final party after this.
Steve Spencer: Oh my gosh.
Chad Barnier: Yeah, my, my colleague runs a grand final party every year. So I'm obliged to go last year it was fun. It's fun to watch a whole bunch of blokes, yell at drag Queens. Sorry, the band KISS on a football field.
Christy Newman: Yeah, I love that
Steve Spencer: you two are talking about the football. I'm off to a drag brunch after this.
Christy Newman: Amazing. I'm gonna go watch the AFL with a bunch of queers who we all, we go to the AFLW together and then on occasion to the big game. So yeah, it'll be fun.
Chad Barnier: Where are you based, christy?
Christy Newman: I'm in Sydney. I live in the inner city, inner west of Sydney, but yeah, most of my life is very centrally organised in Sydney.
Chad Barnier: We're probably neighbours, I'm sure.
Christy Newman: Probably.
Chad Barnier: I'm also in the inner west.
Christy Newman: I'm originally from Western Australia though and I have, feel very deeply that connection to To the country in which I was raised over in Fremantle.
So I've got Fremantle AFL blood also me, but they're not the grand final today. The Dockers. Absolutely. I've got an angle.
Chad Barnier: I think the Dockers sounds like a great drag trio or something.
Steve Spencer: To sexualise it, do you know what docking is? Sorry.
Chad Barnier: That was my joke.
Steve Spencer: Sorry to the listeners. Okay. All right. It sounds like a mutual masturbation club. Yeah.
Chad Barnier: Okay. We have to ask. Again, I'm not a sports ball person, but Christy, who are you going for in the grand final?
Christy Newman: The Sydney Swans. Absolutely. I wear the red and white other games in the year, except for what the game where they are playing the Dockers and then I put my purple on.
Chad Barnier: Yeah. Great. Okay. That's awesome. So I'm glad you're in the final I hope, you get the audition and you win the big performance and And we'll see you at the Tony's.
Steve Spencer: Yeah. I hope you score lots of birdies and make every lap?
Yeah, there
Chad Barnier: we go.
Steve Spencer: I don't know. Wow. We're really pulling that one. Hey, Christy, you are not just Christy Newman. You are Professor Christy Newman. Could you quickly introduce yourself? Could you tell our listeners a bit more about about what it is you do?
Christy Newman: Yeah, sure. So I work at UNSW Sydney and yes, I'm a professor these days.
I've been there for 20 years now, , yeah, incredible to me. I am a researcher. That's my, identity in work. Yeah. And have been a social researcher looking at a whole range of things at the intersections of health, gender, and sexuality for that 20 years lucky enough to be based in the Centre for Social Research in Health which was one of the centres founded by HIV money in the late eighties, early nineties, there were four funded and we were the social research center and have always done community based community partnered work responding to health priorities. HIV was one of the the focus areas obviously for a very long time but has also expanded over the years. And personally, the thing that's really driven me always has been thinking about those complex intersections between gender and sexuality and how we respond to health through a community lens.
So I've been super, super lucky to be part of that process, work with some, you Some real activist academics, I would call them inspire me every day who really bring lived experience and a fierce politics to the work that they do in generating evidence that's needed to change policy and practice.
Yeah. Across a whole range of areas.
Chad Barnier: Can I say, I think activist academic is probably one of the sexiest combos you could ever come up with. That's so cool.
Christy Newman: Yeah. And look I also for my sins am Deputy Dean research in my faculty is the is Arts, Design & Architecture. So very much in the social arts side, but I love bringing that approach to health because it's thinking about lived experience, community politics, identity, all of these issues that are actually social aspects of how we think about health and medicine. And in that sense, in my faculty, I can't tell you, I work with just they're just rebels, right across a whole range of areas and they're doing incredible work in climate and in so social inclusion and violence prevention, all kinds of areas that they really fierce fiercely committed to making making change through the work that they do.
We are no longer in an ivory tower era of university work. And it's wonderful to be part of it. Yeah.
Chad Barnier: How cool. What an inspiring environment to be in where not only are you doing cool work, but with the coolest people. And I like, I don't know many people that get to. I work with awesome people every day and I'm inspired by them, but also doing good work at the same time.
What a honour that must be.
Christy Newman: Really incredibly lucky. It's tough work. It's very competitive work. You're constantly trying to find funding for everything. That's, we're not the only sector doing that but the higher education sector is really have been through a tough time we don't funding has not kept up with what the range of things that universities do over the years.
And the last few years with COVID have been really rough. But. He thing that keeps you there is the people absolutely. And that includes the students who come through, who just bring the most incredible energy and that their expectations for how we keep changing and keep on doing things in ways that are going to make a difference.
That's what. Keeps you on your toes.
Steve Spencer: Oh, we're always saying that. We're always, whenever I'm feeling disgruntled, it's like the kids have got it not to sound patronizing. I say that with absolute love and adoration and admiration. Younger generation bringing it and they're going to, they're going to chew it up, muddle it up, push it over and see, Create a better world.
It's so exciting. Isn't
Chad Barnier: that cool? I was talking to a client yesterday and they were talking about hiring younger people and they were saying just how inspired and challenged they are by a younger generation where values are everything and like their expectation of a value based workplace or a value based world.
Is just a baseline of like, why aren't we doing this? What is the point if not for this? It's cool that comes over into research as well.
Christy Newman: Yeah. Look, I think universities, of course, we are constantly having that influx of new perspectives because we've got a new generation always arriving every year.
Every year they look younger and younger,
Steve Spencer: but,
Christy Newman: it's that funny thing. Like you, I never made a decision to be an academic or to be a kind of career academic. I just was doing the next cool project that I had a job on, and I was a contract researcher for a very long time.
And suddenly I'm now. part of the institution. And what I hope is that I can find a way to keep that feeling alive in everything I do, like how are we adapting and changing and challenging our assumptions? Because, we I identify as somebody who was part of the, the a generation that was trying to make change.
So I need to remain open to being challenged for my own assumptions and it's hard. It's hard to do that. You get tired.
Chad Barnier: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.
Christy Newman: And so that being like intergenerational connections and communication and relationships is absolutely critical because it's just going to keep on.
Challenging and making sure that we can hear things differently to what we know ourselves as individuals.
Chad Barnier: I'm obsessed with that. That's fantastic. We have two little segments we like to do. One of them is, we call it a Bi light. So it's like your Bi highlight. This is something that stood out this week through your Bi POV, your Bi lens.
That was a particular highlight for you. Does anything pop to mind?
Steve Spencer: Hristy and I have a shared one. Oh, okay. Please.
Chad Barnier: I love that. Thanks for inviting me tonight. No. I'll hand it off to you. But
Steve Spencer: for the listeners, Christy and I are co investigators on a study called the BISH study, the Bipolar Sexual Health and HIV Needs.
Australia's first ever national survey of the sexual health and HIV needs of BIPOC people. Yes, you heard that correctly. We have never done specific research on BIPOC people's sexual health. And now we are. So Kristy and I have been part of the same research team for a number of years. And we opened it up to the world in the last week and we have already had hundreds of responses.
Wow. Christy, how are you feeling in this first week?
Christy Newman: Yeah, look, it's super exciting. It's been a, it's been a fairly long road. u e said, Bi+ focused work has been is a real gap in the history of the work that's happened in sexual health and HIV research by there's been elements of broader studies that have been able to look at by experiences.
And there's been there's been work around Particularly in that sort of gay men's sexual health area. There's been work with men who have sex with men including straight identified men who have sex with men. So I trying to challenge the idea that everybody's gay.
They're really different things from actually taking a bi,+ specific lens. And what I love about this project is the people. Again it's the people, but it's really a collaborative community exercise that's put this together. We've been able to scrape together teeny bits of money but very little it's really been done and fueled with the volunteer contributions of the investigating team, as well as community advisory representatives from right across the country.
So it's super exciting. I haven't actually completed it yet myself. I think you've already done it. Haven't you, Steve? I started it this morning. Like I'm going to have to come back to this Even looking at each of the questions and just remembering how much time went into all of
Steve Spencer: them. Every word is hyper analyzed, approved, chewed up and spat out.
It's insane. It's so considerate. And I love in this study, to bring it onto topic, really, we, it's not just sexual health. Chris, you'll probably be able to explain this in a way more articulate way than me, but the importance of looking at relationships and how our relationships impact our sexual health and how sexual health impacts our relationships and our sense of identity impacts all of that.
And that's really what we are here to talk about.
Christy Newman: Yeah, I guess going back to a bylight as well, an absolute highlight for me this week was a number of friends contacting me to say that was the first time I've completed a survey where I feel like I can fully say what my life looks like in this context.
Yeah.
Christy Newman: So that is incredible. Incredibly satisfying. And also I did have a couple of experiences this week of hearing some pretty, some things that made me quite upset about by+ experiences in dating apps and so on. So
again,
Christy Newman: it just was like a confirmation of why this sort of thing is needed. You're right, Steve.
I guess our interest for both of us is coming out of a sexual health, HIV prevention, HIV kind of response lens, but those things don't make sense outside of understanding how people live their lives. And, in a broader sense. So really what we wanted to do was be asking people about the relationships they're in, but also the kinds of sexual connections and practices that feature in their lives.
So we needed to find a way for that to make room for non monogamous and poly arrangements casual arrangements, as well as monogamous. Long term and including relationships with which in which sex doesn't feature, have room for all of those things. And to recognise that and we absolutely, there's no way to, to make a.
Survey that can be completed in 30 minutes. Also make room for every form of relationship. Cause it would just end up being too long, but we're pretty happy. I think with the kind of the way that we were able to bring that together.
Chad Barnier: It's pretty unreal. I, as I was completing it last week. Last week, early this week, I I had to screenshot like every page to be like, are you guys seeing this?
Are you seeing just how like inclusive this language is? I, it was profound. It was this, it was, I almost equate it to the moment I first stepped into an all by space of that kind of easing of your shoulders, the letting down of that that stress or anxiety you didn't realise was there. And when you fill out a form that says, are you, cause.
Nothing gets my goat more than asking what your sexuality is. And it's a radio button, which is like a select one option versus a multi select because I identify with multiple things. And it didn't just have what I identify as it had. 15, 16 different options and the ability to add more. And it just made my heart sing.
It was so cool to see.
Christy Newman: Yeah. Cause I don't know about both of you, but certainly if people ask me about how I identify in terms of my sexuality I'm like, how long have you got?
Because, because it, there's usually a lot of work and thought that's gone into, and it depends on the audience. It depends on the context.
Steve Spencer: If it's raining or not, where's the moon?
Christy Newman: And you know, Bi+ is not one thing. That's the point, right? Like it's so many different things and it does, it holds space for a whole lot of different ways of connecting and identifying.
So yeah, again, I think it's really important. There is. Already good community work happening in providing a space for people to feel seen and able to contribute. But what we can do with that data is also just wonderful. And I think the other piece there, we can probably come back to this is thinking really carefully about gender and how gender and sexuality relate.
And that's, we need to do that differently now than we have historically. So there's a lot of work happening right across the sector to try to change. Surveys that exist to make them more inclusive. Correct. more appropriate, actually asking questions that are accurate
Chad Barnier: that matter.
Christy Newman: But it's really hard work because our social understandings of these things have changed over the years and we're in a different place now.
Chad Barnier: Oh my gosh. I, yeah I was so excited to one participate to be seen and then three. be sharing it with people. Can I ask how long is it open for?
Christy Newman: Yeah. So we're doing a kind of a series of different strategies for recruitment.
It's probably going to be open to the end of the year but we'll be focusing recruitment in waves.
So we've just started through, the social media channels of our investigators as well as some of our support organisations and some of the Bi+ community orgs. But I think it's the first go at that. We've already got hundreds of responses, which is just so fantastic, but we really want to keep going hard and we'll start next phase.
I think we're going to be focusing on apps, so hookup apps, dating apps some of which I don't have any experience of actually recruiting through before. So particularly more on the queer women's side. I've done some reading on the apps, but,
Chad Barnier: steve's an expert.
Steve Spencer: That's just, that's private recruitment.
Chad Barnier: So this episode comes out October 7th. So pretty soon. So we obviously we'll put links in the show notes for anyone that wants to listen to participate in the study. If you go to our social media, we'll have it all over there. And you better believe we'll be mentioning it across a number of episodes before it closes.
So we are so excited. It is important to us. We know that it's important to community. And it's something that represents people that. Might not have been represented before is that's a powerful tool. My, question is what's next. Once we have this information, how do we use it? What what do you then use it to go to government to resources, like for funding, how does this translate into the real world?
Christy Newman: So we've got a sort of range of ideas around how we progress this. We're really lucky that we've got that wonderful Bella Bushby will be working on this, on the data from this over the next few years as part of her PhD. That actually means a series of really high quality articles will come out that we know on key topics.
And that and getting Getting the analysis published in the peer reviewed literature is really important for that to be recognised as valid and and able to influence in terms of government, but we'll also do some more accessible pieces. So we'll do a, a short report and we'll do some pieces that we hope will then be able to be, Used specifically for different different, advocacy purposes.
And
Christy Newman: the dataset will then be also available for other things over time. So as we see, we're like, Oh, we need to do an analysis to look at that specific thing. We can go back and see how we might be able to use it. We already know we're going to be. Able to produce some really interesting papers on identity.
Because as you've said, that kind of the interesting ways in which people are putting together their identities in order to, make sense of where they sit in community is a piece of it. But certainly the work around Bella's work is mainly going to be focused on the health implications.
So how do we make sure sexual health services are doing the best they can to Make Bi+ people feel welcome, seen and able to be honest about what, who their sexual partners are, what they what kinds of health promotion is appropriate for them. That's one piece, lots of opportunities to inform sexual health.
promotion campaigns and to be thinking about that the HIV sector as well we know is keen for insights into Bi+ experiences and thinking about, how to apply those things. And again, I think there really are lots of intersections between Bi+ community and trans community in a number of ways and lots of applications then for trans health also as a, as another area.
And of course we haven't mentioned it yet. Lots we can do with this information for lobbying for improved mental health services and responses to reducing stigma andhe, the long term impacts that we know that Bi+ people experience disproportionately to others.
So yeah.
Chad Barnier: Is that why it is such a challenge to gain access to funding, gain access to resources, because it is such a long term play, because just putting together a set of questions takes years, and then gathering the data and analyzing the data takes potentially years, and then being able to communicate that data and communicate it in a way that is appropriate for different services and then for community and then for the general public is that why it's so hard to get access to funding?
Cause you have to prove that it's worth
Christy Newman: it. It's a really good question. I think I, I think it's much more about by erasure in our systems. Nd by if we'ot asked questions the right way, we've not had the data to show how many people are multi gender attracted amongst the surveys that we're already doing about in straight, in broad mainstream communities, but also in queer communities, for example.
And so then you've just, you're missing. So you can't then build the case for why something needs to be, done better in relation to that community. I think it's just a long of beiible and being made invisible by the, by those systems. And the biphobia piece though, is that, complicated relationship between recognizing and having confirmed that peopleh, suspicious fearful or judgmental of multi gender attraction but also that internalised by phobia that then can mean people don't show up and aren't asking the questions and aren't being honest in health services or, that sort of thing.
So it's a complicated set of issues, I think. I think that I wouldn't All survey research and all really community partner research takes a long time. This is not, it's yeah, it's it's taken us a long time, partly because we have done it, on the smell of an oily rag, but also we wanted to get it right.
And we didn't have a lot of existing surveys we could use as examples. We had, to create most of those questions ourselves and test them, change them and think about how, what we're trying to do. So that, yeah, that, that does take a long time for when you're doing it for the first time.
But I'm not sure that's an excuse for why it hasn't happened before. I think it's really been systemic systemic kind of biphobia really in a, in in the research community, but much more broadly as well.
Steve Spencer: I found Like these processes take years, right? But things can happen at the same time as well, especially when you've got activist academics and also on our team, we've got activists and advocates and we feed back into community channels.
And so while we're cooking in the kitchen, we're also we're gathering ingredients where gs can happen at the same time. It's like we know we can assume what some of the results will look like and I find what we've been doing, Christy, like over the last couple of years is really preparing, like laying the groundwork to prepare people to receive that data to be like, Wow, we actually need to set up the foundations to be able to accept this data because once we have the Once we have the proof, for want of a better term of these poor social and health outcomes and this proof of our experiences, all of this, we want it to be used.
We want it to be to have a positive impact, right? you hao prepare people for that. And I think that is really happening. We're seeing this by moment. Like you said, Christy the LGBTIQ+ and HIV community organisations are all hungry for this and are asking for it. And e we wait for academic papers to be published, we can have initial research out saying this, we actually need to start doing things now.
Because actually we need to start doing these things 30 years ago.
Christy Newman: Yeah, that's right. And I think As you've said, Steve, we've already been beginning those kinds of presentations to community organisations and so on. And even I think promoting the study does something for key organisations to go, Oh, okay.
What are we doing in this space? How, are we asking the right questions? And look, I feel like we are in an era of greater increasing recognition of yeah, multi gender attraction, as a broad category. And that's a really wonderful thing. I think it's happening in a number of different ways.
The Gallup poll data is just so useful. It's so helpful. Yeah. I think, I think the things that, Then are the next step though, are going well, like what, yeah, why have we not seen this before? And and what do we do with it now? And I think that, there's, it's really important for people to know, often we haven't seen it before because the questions weren't asked.
Appropriately. Also that socially a lot of ideas around both gender and sexuality identification are really relatively new. That broad kind of cultural understanding that you've got different choices and that's, yeah. So that you have different choices at all is one thing, but that it might be a legitimate option.
It might not come with social ramifications. That's very new. And I think that's the pace that we're only just really moving into. I think it's really important with a Gallup poll data though, for us to recognise the gender differences in young people, it's far more young women who are willing to self identify as bisexual than young men.
That's not because. There's more Bi+ young women than men. It's because of that social sanctioning. It's riskier for young men because masculinity is a, a more fragile social construct. There's much, it's much harder to maintain that without social ramifications if you're not pregnant.
Performing in a particular way. And that's really that makes me very energised around thinking around, what can we, how can we keep on pushing? That's why this podcast is fantastic. Every positive representation we can have around masculinity and bisexuality is useful.
And that's, I think the next sort of frontier around around young people in education.
Totally.
Chad Barnier: I like what you have said around prepping people to receive information. It's such a interesting meta conversation to have and this could be either people who aren't a part of the community in positions of power whether to act on the research or to provide funding and resources to do the project and the research in the first place.
Christy, I'd love a bit of a personal opinion. of the best way, fastest way, most the best way to mobilise that kind of readiness. I wonder, is it about educating people in positions of power, or is it about educating community and helping community Get into positions of power, for example, installing by+ people in government or or empowering by+ people who
are in government, or allowing
Chad Barnier: people who are in those, worlds to feel empowered enough to live authentically out and identify as such, because I know that a lot of people in the Bi community don't outwardly identify, but they know it to be true of themselves.
It is that a better way forward to Hey, yeah, we said it on another episode of Oh, Susie down the halls by let's just ask Susie. And we love Susie. So that's not alien to us now. What do you see as a practical way forward? Cool. fast track to getting this kind of stuff to, to take hold.
Christy Newman: Look, they're really good questions. I guess what you're asking at the heart of is how does social change happen?
Chad Barnier: Can you just quickly wrap up the answer to the social change?
Christy Newman: I, of course the obvious answer is in lots of ways something that makes me really excited right now in both the gender and the sexuality spaces is that when we see younger people being more open and more actively identifying and pushing the envelope, in, in a range of areas, whether that's schools, families, workplaces, universities, and so on around their expectations for being, recognised and affirmed in having a diverse gender or sexuality is that it has an impact on older people as well.
So you see, we're seeing it now in the trans space with a lot of older people, and I would include myself in this coming to recognise themselves. Through the language that young people are articulating. In my case I came to understand my experience of gender as non binary. Only a few years ago not for want of not being around plenty of people of diverse genders, but suddenly going Oh I'm, I can actually now link those parts of my experience to that, what they're saying that means.
Okay. Interesting. And then, oh, am I too old to take that on as well? I got actively told by many of my friends, you're not too old. So then I can lean into that. I think we're going to see that happen with bisexuality as well. I know a lot, in my personal networks, the number of friends that I've got who are in, straight presenting relationships and who are queer as, I don't know if I'm allowed to swear on this podcast, but, they're queer.
They're queer as fuck. It might look like they are in a, long and they may be in a long term monogamous kind of straight presenting, te gender relationship that doesn't change the fact that they're queer as fuck. And so they are really enjoying the fact that they've got more opportunities now to talk about that and not to be seen to their be devaluing the relationship they're in, or to be trying to Claim more than they are because I think there's a lot of legitimacy issues that come up for people around, own that?
So the more young people are doing that and saying, it doesn't matter if I'm with any partner or which partner, that's still. Who I am.
I think we're going to start to see that happening in older people. And I think we're going to see that in people including in people in positions of influence.
Chad Barnier: Yeah.
I am excited by that. And you referenced the Gallup poll. We love the Gallup poll. I think one of the things it unfortunately doesn't represent is this like a longitudinal spectrum. And I'm intrigued to see how. Cause at the moment we have baby boomers and then all the different generations, but I haven't looked at the Gallup poll year on year to see, Oh, are the generations themselves going up?
Not just each generation going out, if that makes sense. So I'd love to maybe break that down. Maybe something Steven and I can look at. Speaking of identifying a little bit further on in life. I watched the Will and Harper documentary last night. It came out and it's fantastic. I was crying the whole way through.
It's a beautiful kind of meditation on what is the point I'm getting on in my life and why do I need to go through this hardship now? And it's about being authentic to yourself. And I know a lot of bisexual people who aren't. Out and the affirmation is the same as that living authentic life is always worth it.
And yeah, it was really cool. So I encourage people to watch it. It was pretty cool. And the power of allies. It was really a big part of that as well. Yeah.
Christy Newman: I think it's going to have a big impact. I haven't seen it yet, but I've been waiting for it to come out. And if people don't know, it's about Will Ferrell, who I just look at his face and I like, he's just so funny.
And yeah, no, like it doesn't matter what he's doing. I'm already, I'm ready to be, amused. He's brilliant. And it's about his relationship with his best friend who comes out as trans, and they uo a road trip together and have an opportunity to talk about that experience.
Again. One of the things we know from the literature in terms of what makes social change happen is its personal relationships with people who are different.
And that's been the case through every civil rights movement, is that it's a combination of pushing really hard, sometimes Disobedience socially and also wrecking building social relationships so that people understand human is human and these forms of difference, whatever they are legitimate and need to be supported.
So I think we're in a moment and I'm really happy. happy to be part of conversations, around the opening up of recognition in both Bi+ and in gender diverse spaces.
Steve Spencer: Quite controversially like one way that gay lib what gay liberation has taught us, if we look at Harvey Milk famously Encouraged very strongly, some would say force all of his collaborators to come out.
Basically, the thought was if we aren't visible if we don't have those personal connections, how are we going to create influence? It was, it's a very controversial approach, but it's exactly what you said there, Christy. It even, it's even shown in the literature in that it is those personal connections that creates, that can help create change.
Chad Barnier: Yeah, it is so effective. We've had people write into us that this has started conversations in their life with different people, that they've been more open and the active labeling of it, of the, I'm multi gendered attracted or I'm biplast or I'm whatever. Because it allows them to be counted in some way and giving them the language to be confident in that is super cool.
So I see it as a really powerful tool on a micro level to make a really macro change. I might say let's push past our topical topic and dive into the actual topic of the episode. Is that cool?
Steve Spencer: Let's do it. Oh, can I first quickly say it's so funny, no matter at what point in life you think you're too old to do something like I didn't come out until I was 26 and I thought I was Too late.
I'm just going to watch life go by. 26, come on. And ite, it was obviously like the best, most incredible decision I ever made. And but yeah it's so normal to think that you should have done all of this when you were younger. But u, if you, There's no better time than the present.
Chad Barnier: Hey friends, just a quick break to remind you that we actually have a private Facebook group for listeners of the podcast. If you're loving the podcast and want to connect with more BI folks, you can head to our website and find the link to the group there. It's a private community where we dive deeper into bypass topics.
We share resources and support each other. The conversation is. Honestly, fantastic. The more people, the better. It's basically a big Bi+ party and we'd love for you to join us. So head to the website, find the link and come be part of the awesome growing community. And we'll see you there. Back to the episode.
Fantastic. So let's talk about Bi+ relationships, how bypass people turn up in the world, in relationships, how other people turn up in relationships with bypass people. This can be romantic. This can be sexually. This could be from an ally point of view or a partner point of view. We're talking all things Bi relationships.
We've got a bunch of questions from our audience, which we'll get to in a bit. But Christy, do you want to talk about maybe your history speaking and looking into Bi relationships?
Christy Newman: Can I interweave a personal and I guess research answer to that? I've wor in the sexual health research, sexual reproductive health and related areas for, more than two decades now.
And in my experience, there's been very little opportunity to do much that's fit that specifically by+ focused in that. D there's and if you look at the certainly the Australian research sector, there's ly the kind of occasional focus study that's happened over that time, so what, if we're looking at how to understand Bi+ relationships, for me, that's very much about a community lens as well, because a lot of the insight that I've gained has been from from reading the work of, and reading social media posts from community and reading the kind of more community publicly accessible type and reflective work of of people in the community.
So I, I think historically, certainly in the HIV response and sexual health area and sexualities, most attention to multitudes. Gender attraction and sex was was looking at married men who had sex with men.
And so there was always, including in that in that research a sense that these men didn't quite fit categories.
They were the either. being secretive or assumptions that they were being secretive. And we know not always the case, but sometimes yes. So there is definitely a history in the research of, I guess, Bi+ relationships being framed as a problem. And that's a problem because there's been there's always been people who are openly bisexual.
And we know that from the, certainly from the history of gay liberation and the HIV response Bisexual advocates were always part of every form of activism and form of social change. Yeah, I would say what I love seeing in the last few years is more Bi+ focus studies that look at that experience in its own right.
And that does include difficult realities, including not always having had an experience of feeling you belong because you don't quite fit in gay community or you don't quite fit in straight community. And not everybody has known that there is an alternative to that. So that having that wonderful experience of being in Bi+ spaces where you not having to prove yourself one way or the other and I think we also see that has impacted.
the way that people form relationships, the way that people find sexual partners. So certainly we don't have a history of Bi+ focused dating culture platforms. Certainly there's been by again, social networks and and people who have met each other in those environments, but it's been, Not really a focus.
We don't have by+ only dating apps, for example. So it's always part of these kinds of broader contexts and thinking about how you might fit. And that's, that leads to a lot of difficult experiences for people where they feel either, misunderstood or excluded. And I continue to hear, I heard even this week, stories of people who are not open about being bisexual because they find that they can't meet sexual partners if they say that.
And that's really upsetting to hear.
Steve Spencer: Yeah.
Christy Newman: And I do think that's getting better. I, but the fact that it happens still at all is It's really sad. It, yeah, that, because it's people missing the opportunity to meet wonderful people, right? That's the point. Yeah.
Steve Spencer: It's pure discrimination based on sexuality.
It's, that's all it is based on preconceptions, myths. We covered myths in our last episode, just these, yeah, these pervasive ideas about what this sexuality means about an individual, as opposed to seeing the individual themselves.
Christy Newman: Absolutely. And I think there's an what I hope we will see over time is a greater social recognition that every individual hold
multitudes, right? And no matter what your sexuality, you, we are brought, we are, we have so much within us in terms of potential and also the complexity of how we are human. So the fact that we need people to lock themselves into a single, way of being and identifying is in itself kind of part, a part of the problem.
And I think. Yeah, I think the idea that dating a bisexual person means that there's more to them than you can connect to is, and that's somehow going to create a situation that's, unsafe or will lead to, to, to difficult things, which I think is part of the fear here is it's assuming that relationships mean that you ever have access to or own them.
All of a person and you simply don't, we are all so much more than and every single relationship or connection between two people is individual, right? It's this one unique moment between two people that creates something that's never been before. So how will you know what that will be unless you're open?
Yeah.
Chad Barnier: I love that because just that little loathe to call it a soundbite, but that little point of it's so individual and it's so between two people. It's delicious. Gets to the core of dispelling so many Bi myths. Like I almost wish we had that for last episode of like, how do you know what their arrangement is?
How do you know what their experience is? How do you know how they choose to love?
Steve Spencer: Yeah. Why close the door before looking what's behind it?
Christy Newman: Yeah. And how do you know what. love or, a sexual connection or even friendship that might come from, ing of two people how do you know that won't change aspects of how you understand yourself anyway, right?
Like every single time. So I guess I hope that people can have faith that. exploring and knowing somebody, that there's a that there's absolute joy and freedom that can come with being open. And that I think there's such wonderful. courage and honesty that comes with somebody who has reached a point of saying I'm bisexual or I'm pansexual or I'm, and so surely that means at the very least the conversations are going to be awesome.
Chad Barnier: It's funny that you say that. I feel like a lot of people, when they hear someone saying I'm bisexual. might see it as a potential closing of doors of opportunity to relate or engage, where usually it takes a certain amount of introspection.
Same with trans folks. I some of my most favorite people who really think really wonderfully about all the ways the world happens queer and particularly trans folks, because they've had to navigate those things at such a different level of nuance than most people. And so the, like the conversations that we ended up having is so wonderful because look at the beauty you bring to this narrative or this experience.
That I would say, yeah, the same thing is probably true for bisexual people because you've had to navigate what straight may or may not look like for you, what gay may or may not look like for you, and they've come out the other side going, Okay, and through all this fear and biphobia, birasia, I'm still choosing to push forward and be visible.
Yeah, engage with bisexual people,
Steve Spencer: we're amazing to date. We're incredible.
Yeah. We say this in the HIV space, when someone comes out to you, and this applies to Bi people as well or any experience where you've had to face adversity, right? We say, when someone discloses their HIV status to you, when someone opens up about their sexuality to you they are welcoming you in, and they are actually bearing their soul for you.
And for me, the obvious reaction to that is to embrace that, embrace the person and know that they have had to overcome something to get to this point.
Chad Barnier: Yeah. It's almost like if someone tells you the bio, the trans or whatever, it's Almost thank them. Thank you for being so vulnerable and inviting me in.
It is an invitation. It is like you are, I want you to be a part of my party.
Steve Spencer: But what we see instead is a fear response, right?
Christy Newman: Yeah. And I do think it plays out differently with gender as well, which again is, it is makes me deeply sad and frustrated. I think what we see with women who identify as Bi and particularly I think, bi curious or really wanting to explore a side of themselves that perhaps they haven't been able to in their life is a fear that they are, that they're tourists and that really they're straight.
A lot of queer women are still, I think, reluctant to be open to to what that might mean. And that's a fear of, that's a fear of getting hurt, which, I understand none of us want that. It's a really difficult experience, but also, People have to start somewhere, so give them a go. And I can't tell you the number of amazing relationships I see in my life, in friends and so on, with somebody that they've formed with somebody for whom it was the first time that they had sgender connection in their life.
And I'm just so pleased that, that they, that those queer women were open to that. Possibility because it work it's worked out beautifully. Now, I do think that bisexual men and I'm thinking here particularly about women dating bisexual men, think the fear can be that bisexual men are actually truly gay, right?
That they're not that somehow they're being tricked or something. I'm not sure. It's a different, it's a different flavor that plays out a bit there in terms of gender. In both cases, it's about, it's fear and it's fear of what, fear of loss or hurt or shame or, and I think we can all find ways to manage that fear in order to have wonderful experiences and meet people and have, incredible connections.
Yeah. I've always got, ideas for t shirts, but data bisexual for sure. But like data bisexual man, data bisexual woman yet give them a go.
Chad Barnier: Yeah, I think it's so funny. The idea of fear isn't unique to that Bi experience or dating a bisexual person. It is inherent in all relationships.
And I think there's potentially the thought that. Why did you have to bring a new fear to this relationship? Like it was some kind of choice. Like I, like we were dating and it was fine. Now this is a new fear that I have. Why did you have to introduce this? Which, Obviously that's super loaded as well.
There's so many different nuances to, by dating, by relationships. And we do have some questions from our audience who would love to go through we won't attach names to them because we didn't actually ask for permission to do names. So just for people's, Anonymity and safety, we won't do any names.
How about we, we jump in. So the first question here is, As a queer coded, camp ish Bi man, what does dating look like for guys like me?
Steve Spencer: Good question.
Chad Barnier: There's a few things, it's a great question there's a few things I guess to unpack. One, what does queer coded mean? What is is camp ish? Does that mean appearing to be not straight?
Or more effeminate. Is that a concern? And what does that look like for guys like me? I guess it depends on who and how you're trying to date. There's a few, different layers there. Steve, thoughts?
Steve Spencer: Yeah. It's that concern. I know, certainly for me when I was coming out and even to this day I have these flourishes.
Kristy, I'd love to hear your sort of musings on expectations and performative masculinity in that I feel like Bi men are expected to be a certain way, and it depends what gaze you're looking from as well. So if you're looking from the gay's gaze, it's Oh, there's that impression that we're meant to be these repressed straight men.
Ither a repressed straight man or actually we're gay, not being able to perform to those expectations of masculinity and fear that brings and limitations we place on ourselves. And then the realisation that, y if you are a queer coded campish fireman, as the questioner put in there, question How we can overcome our own fears of how we're performing masculinity and actually realise that say if we're dating women that women actually really appreciate the richness the beauty that non performative sexism has.
archetypal masculine men have. What are your thoughts?
Christy Newman: Yuh, there's a lot in there. I think my first my first thought again is, as you said, thinking about the constraints, the very unfair constraints that exist around masculinity and how it is enacted and the kind of gender policing in particular that applies to mask presentations.
I feel like it's almost that. This question is almost more about gender than sexuality. Because, you can come to appreciate and and feel proud of a kind of gender queer way of being in the world, I think that then. will release some of the anxiety that potentially this person is feeling about dating because you're only going to want to date people that appreciate that.
in m perience, people who appreciate and attracted to genderqueer people and really celebrate and really love that are also typically more open to multi gender attraction as there's been valid, there's an intersection there. But I also just want to validate.
Christy Newman: that it's okay to have anxieties around, around some of this stuff as well, because it's, there, there's a, there is a range of complexities there for people whose gender expression is not e kind of stereotype. I think in my, I've come to recognise in my own experience of attraction, from the earlier stage, I was attracted to genderqueer people.
Like that was that, and it actually, Their gender didn't matter. It was the queerness of the gender that I was attracted to, if that makes sense. D growing up in the seventies and eighties I knew I wasn't straight, I knew I wasn't a lesbian. I now realise that's partly because I'm.
Not a woman. But I but in bisexual, even from, which is really the main identity I had from very young age that kind of held for that kind of, but I also knew I had a. kind of quite specific forms of attraction actually. And also I didn't want to be attractive to just anybody either.
So it was I could see myself as, even though bisexual feels big within it, I knew it was a particular kind of pathway for myself. And I think that's okay. So maybe for this person, it's two pieces. One is coming to really Appreciate the self and the way you are in the world as awesome and the kind of, queer coded dimensions of how some, how you are read as being your strength, not a problem.
And then the other part is recognizing you might not be the kind of generic attraction to absolutely everybody. And maybe that's awesome also, because it's not necessarily the people you're going to have the best connections with. So it's trying to work out how
Chad Barnier: to,
Christy Newman: yeah.
Chad Barnier: There's two things that I love is the idea of queerness, because I love queerness as an identity, but also in the kind of nineties, when we started to reclaim the word queer, queer is a political word.
I've been reading old. Archived by writing lately and a lot of people not wanting to include queer people in circles because there's a certain association of what they might bring to that. It's you're going to be an activist. You're going to be allowed bisexual or allowed queer.
I'm thinking specifically about the Mardi Gras by band for that one. But yeah, the idea that Bisexual people aren't, or most people, I would posit, aren't attracted to parts. Aren't attracted to, oh, you have this part, I have this part, therefore I'm attracted to you. It is, that might be a foundational element somewhere, but I would say I'm more attracted to a politically queer person or somebody who is, like you were saying before, like an academic activist or, you know what I mean?
Like someone who does the conversating for academic activists. Yeah. That's when you grind a profile name.
Christy Newman: Like how Sapiosexual. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Chad Barnier: Yeah.
Christy Newman: Yeah.
Chad Barnier: What other ways am I attracted to this person outside of they identifying as a man, woman, or otherwise, like it, we said it in the last episode of bisexuality isn't about opportunity.
It's not about Oh, look, I'm attracted to more people. Therefore, give me all the sex.
Christy Newman: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And look, more power to the people for whom that is how it works, but it's not, absolutely not the case for many.
Yeah.
Christy Newman: I think it was one piece that I struggled with for a long time is the misunderstanding.
If people saw me, if I identify as bisexual, that people think that means I'm attracted to everybody or, and that I want to be attractive to everybody. Neither of those things is true. Yeah. . Personally, I'm only interested in dating people who. or having any form of connection with people who I have a compatible politics with,
like that is a, that's
Christy Newman: a, just a kind of really important to me.
But also gender does matter to me in this particular kinds of presentation that I tend to be attracted to. And that the fact that's not then. Lay it on to yeah that limits who those people are. Doesn't mean I don't still have particular forms of attraction. I just think there will be people, absolutely.
I know there will be people who want to date. This person. Like that, it's really important to have a to to spend that time challenging your own internal, fears and sense of shame around being different
from
Christy Newman: the norms, because there is an army of people who don't want to date the norms like that.
So You've got a fine. Yeah.
Chad Barnier: Yeah. You've got
Christy Newman: to find your way into those communities and to those people. The other thing I think is really important to remember is as soon as you start feeling all communities like this, you, it's problematic thinking. It's too big. It's too generalised. All you need is a few awesome people that make you feel great.
Chad Barnier: Steve and I are in a big Bi group chat where people discuss different topics around bisexuality and really one of the things that comes out of that more often than not is just how different the experience is for most people. And it's I don't agree with that.
That's not my experience. And it's just so wonderful to see things we talked about on a broad level, but just recognizing. We are so different. And that's beautiful. And that's the point. And I love your distinction between being attracted to, and being attractive to, it's really quite wonderful.
It takes the power back in, in any kind of dating scenario. And I think for people who are in the dating scenario and coming up against the how do I, gate this as a Bi person and the challenges of people are going to have good and bad relationships and challenging times.
And sometimes people are just going to look at the surface thing and say, that's the reason it didn't work. There's a thousand reasons why a relationship does or doesn't work. And if someone says it's because you're bi, it's just the thing they pointed to at the time that seemed the most I can blame this for why I didn't turn up well, or I didn't.
You have empathy or care or hold space for you. Oh, it's because you're bi. And then that person then holds that going forward and feels challenged in a dating scene. But like you were saying that there's so many opportunities to take that power back and it, and that being attractive to somebody, a certain type of person.
That's such a beautiful way to like, to reframe that conversation. I'm obsessed with that idea.
Christy Newman: And also, yeah, I know people who are attractive to almost everybody they meet and that's a lot of work. I like, I there is real power that comes into. To thinking about, they've used the, they've used the term queer coded.
I think that's an active process. I think of it as an active process. So you've, you have you, some of it is how you naturally are in your body and movement and expression and so on. And some of it is is things that you can own as this is a, an, this is what makes me feel good.
And I understand how that's read by others. I think, positive experiences help once you've built your confidence, yeah. So I've been in a number of relationships that with both cis and trans men in different kind of relationships where I know the people in our lives, and certainly random people would read us as a pretty, An intriguing couple,
like
Christy Newman: we would be read as a lesbian and a gay man often and people going do they know, and I it used to worry me a little bit.
And now if I'm in that, it's just amusing. And because.
Totally. If you don't
Christy Newman: ever know anything about how people are connecting and what that means in a particular relationship, if you think you do in a kind of straight kind of red relationship, you just I thinere's so much power in reclaiming some of that process for yourself and deciding who you feel good about being.
In Yourself and Fathers. Yeah.
Chad Barnier: Chrissy, how about we do a bit of a rapid round of questions, rapid fire. Are you energised? Do you feel like you have the capacity for us to throw these really deep questions at you with zero time to answer them?
Christy Newman: Absolutely.
Steve Spencer: Let's
Christy Newman: do
Steve Spencer: it. Christy, what are some ways people can explore their bisexuality in a monogamous relationship?
Christy Newman: Oh, great question. I think what I've seen most people in that situation Enjoy is connecting to by community through social media groups and going along to meet up opportunities and having a chance to talk about themselves and that aspect of themselves. Without that meaning they're pursuing relationships with other people, if that's not what they want at that point in their lives.
I think that just that validation and that sense of Is this, is this aspect of myself, does it feel like it is something that other people are recognizing that I see in others? I think you get that through that community connection.
Steve Spencer: Totally. You can create a whole world of your bisexuality without creating.
sexual romantic relationships with people because it's so much more than that, right?
Christy Newman: Absolutely. Absolutely. And I think that's why I like the Robin Oakes definition that really puts the emphasis on the potential piece and the potential that, I know I have this potential in myself and that itself is the form of the part of yourself you want to feel validated for.
And that's enough. It doesn't need to be demonstrated in any way apart from that's enough.
Steve Spencer: Absolutely. And get yourself a Bi flag and a Bi book there. Yeah.
Chad Barnier: I was going to say, I think one of the ways I connected outside of community is content. And unfortunately a lot of media isn't super.
positive, and everyone is working to change that. Let's get some more Bi representation in a positive way out in the world. But there's some fantastic books particularly mentioned to Julia Shaw's book by, it's a great intro, a great Oh, I don't know what this is. Let's explore. There are some great books, maybe the next step that might be a little bit more politically engaging.
If you are, masc male presenting or sign male at
Christy Newman: for bye.
Sure. But as in, in the research literature, no, I don't know necessarily. I think what we know as well is there are a lot of Bi+ people in, ht passing relationships, which is partly just because of numbers in the world of people. And I think that Bi for bi, a little bit like T for T is a, yeah, it's a kind of deliberate.
A kind of a, a space of comfort and familiarity and shared politics and all of those sorts of things. So yeah definitely it, not the only way to be bisexual, absolutely works for many. And I think from my perspective, it must be because of feeling able to be fully oneself and not having to explain it or not having to justify it or defend it.
Yeah, there's a real freedom with that.
Steve Spencer: Yeah, they can be for sure. Now, on a first date, Christy, should you tell your date your bisexual straight away or wait until the third date or fourth date? What do you see as as good timing? Is there a good time?
Christy Newman: I'm a fan of being as open and honest about the key aspects of your life as you can in any dating relationship, recognizin, that really can vary depending on
Steve Spencer: That's a first.
Oh, we're still recording. Okay, everyone. Uhristie's power has gone out. We're just making sure that Armageddon hasn't commenced. A few moments later.
Christy Newman: So weird. That was very strange. Hey,
Chad Barnier: how you doing? Good. So is everything okay?
Christy Newman: Yeah. I'm still trying to work out. It may have been the whole, it may have been power in the whole house.
It was just literally one second, but so my modem I can see is flashing. Okay. It's back now. All right. And it looks like my internet's fully back. That was very weird.
Steve Spencer: Let's go. Oh yeah. Christy on a first date, should you tell your date you're bisexual or should you wait until the third or fourth?
What how do you bring your bisexuality into a new relationship?
Christy Newman: I think it's going to be very specific to the circumstances of that person and how open they are generally. But I am a big proponent of being as honest and upfront as you can about all of the most important parts of your life. in any dating connection because people have, the right to make their own choices about understanding who you are and whether they want to pursue a connection with you.
And nobody enjoys feeling that there's some information that's being held back. It doesn't help generate the kind of trust and openness that you need in to be vulnerable with another person. That's not I'm not being naive about the fact that might change the range of people who are interested in dating you.
But from my perspective, that's a good thing because you don't want to be dating people who are not open to understanding who you are. Yeah. That's my personal, yeah, my personal feeling is ideally that information is available. If it's on a dating app, I would I think it's better to have that info there or explained in some way in a bio.
But if not, I would be, yeah. And look, sounding out people's understanding of. Different sexualities and a lot of people I meet are just keen to understand. And the other thing is just don't ever assume that you know what another person's own experience is, even if they're identifying as straight or lesbian or gay, you, there may be a whole story behind that as well.
So I, I often, I've met people who are straight and after we've dated, they have now on their dating bios saying they're bisexual And I, the same thing actually with lesbians. And I'm quite proud of that actually, in terms of community service. Because, I guess the
Chad Barnier: recruitment drive is strong.
That's the thing
Christy Newman: is right. I didn't change who they are. All that changed was their willingness to be open about that. And to know that, and to trust that can be received in the spirit in which it's intended, which is to be like this is how I believe myself to be. And I hope that's something that you're interested in, in, in learning about me.
Chad Barnier: Yeah. It's a great point about language and, individual experience, because what bisexual means to me will be even in this room, different to you, Christy, different to you, Steve, we might talk about all the ways that they are the same, but it's going to be individual to your experience. And someone who doesn't live in it every day is bound to have a different experience to you.
And there will be an inherent need to bridge a gap somehow. And and I would say difficult conversations are the best conversations and make for the best relationships. Bringing a bit of heat is is a good way to cook a meal. I don't know where I got that analogy from. It can only be a good thing to engage in that conversation whether you move forward in the relationship or not.
I think that's a good result.
Steve Spencer: On a later point there, Christian, your response. Think the presence of a by person gives permission to everyone in that space to be by themselves as well. We're always talking about how just our presence, our openness, our visibility gives people permission. And we're always, people are always coming out to me.
We talk about the by lighthouse on this program. It's we are often that bright light in a dark storm and people might not know that they needed that light.
Christy Newman: Yeah. And it's,
Steve Spencer: but it's not about changing. No
Christy Newman: exactly. It's not a, it's not a recruitment drive. It just ends up being that because e, because I think people are like looking and going, Oh, So you're just, that's just who you are.
It's just, it's not complicated. It's not a problem. It's not dramatic. It's not it's just, it's a settled sense of self acceptance, and that is a very attractive thing. I, I think and. It makes me feel like I'm at certain points. I'm like, is anybody not bisexual? Like it, cause it's lly.
Of course, there's lots of people who aren't, like. When you it's a wonderfully generous thing to be around people who are open to you exploring the potential of your human self, and that it's not surprising. I suppose that people will then lean into those possibilities more and I hope, gosh, in this one life. Let's try and lean in to all of the possibilities that are, that you are interested in exploring in your life.
Chad Barnier: And confidence is the sexiest thing. Absolutely. Especially confidence in yourself and your own experience. Steve, I couldn't help but giggle when you said the presence of a Bi person allows other people to be by themselves and the double entendre by people make people feel alone is hilarious.
Steve Spencer: No. On that note. Let's grab another question. So what are some ways your partner can be an ally to you as a bisexual person, if they are not bisexual
or
Steve Spencer: by themselves?
Christy Newman: I think, gain, it will depend a lot on the specifics of the relationship. I know, for example, in in some relationships, it can be hard to be honest about being bisexual, Attracted to other people without that being seen as a threat to the relationship.
I, I would hope that wouldn't be, cause it shouldn't be, you can be absolutely monogamous and devoted to one person and not interested in dating anybody else and still feel attraction. So being able to have a conversation around that my. Goodness, that person's so hot is and having room for that in a relationship, I think that can be a really validating way to be an ally to a bisexual partner.
Just to recognise that potential in somebody, in that part of themselves, that I think it helps you feel for those people who feel sexual attraction, which is not everybody. It can help you feel. And romantic direction can help you feel alive. And that's a really validating thing to give somebody that you love space for that.
I think also certainly in my experience, this has been important is. A partner telling others that you're bi, validating that experience externally.
With
Christy Newman: your permission, not everybody will want that, but with your permission being and being proud of that, being like, that's a really cool thing about my partner that I love this about them.
That's an incredibly valuable thing to do. And I should say, I've had that experience. When I've dated been in a long term, monogamous relationship with a woman that was important also to recognise I'm not a lesbian. I'm bi, I've had relationships with men and I probably will again and have and also if in a relationship with a man, like I'm not yet.
So I think we sometimes layer that on to, particularly people who are in straight presenting relationships that we need to validate that kind of, the recognised by invisibility. It also applies to people in queer presenting relationships. So I think that correcting people now, yeah we're queer, but also just.
That queer in this context is bisexual. Because also I think queer sometimes, certainly for me, people can read that as dyke, dyke adjacent, like that's my experience and actually no, I'm bisexual. It's different. And that's, Me having to correct people gets really tiring.
If a partner does that for me, it's really affirming.
Steve Spencer: Yeah. I remember the first time my partner a male partner of mine when we were referred to as a gay couple only he's gay and he corrected him and he was like no, Steve's bi. And it's just it's just so validating and also like without instruction, like without, it's wow.
Like this person, I just got shivers. I just love
Christy Newman: that so much.
Chad Barnier: Chrissy, I think that's probably all the questions we have time for. Thank you so much. This has been such a joy. Steve and I have been texting each other on our side chat, but likeed, obsessed. This is such a great episode. So thank you for your wisdom and your insights, your lived experience and being open enough to share them with us.
There's so much here that. I know that our community will really value. And so thank you. You're
Christy Newman: so welcome.
Chad Barnier: Thank you for being generous.
Christy Newman: Anytime. Please ask me back. I have loved this conversation. Really, and thank you for all of the work that you're doing here and spreading the good word.
Chad Barnier: Yeah, absolutely. You might be a season regular, not just a cameo.
Christy Newman: Amazing.
Chad Barnier: The good professor! The good
Christy Newman: professor! Yeah, done! I love
Chad Barnier: that. Hope you have an amazing rest of your weekend, Chrissy, Steve. Enjoy your drag brunch. Hope you enjoy the grand final and the sports ball. Thanks for listening, everybody.
We'll see you on the next episode. Thank you. Before you go, I just want to give a special shout out to anyone listening who's a part of a workplace family. Pride Network. I've actually noticed this week looking at our website analytics, a few referrals coming through from internal staff pages, which means some of you have been sharing the Give It To Me Bi podcast with your colleagues, and honestly, we love to see it.
Thank you so much. Pride Networks are such an incredible resource, and if you are a part of one, it's a great way to connect with fellow Bi+ and LGBTQIA+ folks in your workplace. We are actually planning an episode all about Pride Network soon, but in the meantime, If you'd like to help us out and share this podcast with your workplace pride network, we'd be so grateful.
It's an awesome way to spark conversations, build connections at work, and you never know who you might connect with about the conversation of bisexuality. Thank you so much for tuning in and we'll catch you next time.
Show Notes
Join us in this enlightening episode as we chat with Professor Christy Newman (they/them), a leading researcher from UNSW. We delve into the groundbreaking Bisexual+ Sexual Health and HIV (BISHH Study) that's opening new avenues for understanding. Christy shares insights on how research can shape real-world change and dives deep into the dynamics of bi+ relationships. From dating tips to partner support, and exploring bisexuality in monogamous relationships, we cover it all.
Highlights:
The groundbreaking BISHH Study and how you can participate
How research insights transform into real-world changes
Navigating bi+ relationships: dating, partner support, and more
Audience questions
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